Continuation - The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[DennyT]

I'll try to find the quote but its seems like he didn't want Patterson stepping on Green's toes; he definitely had a relationship with Green, and Green had the big rep, with all the scientists and the dog and all, while Patterson was just an unusual and threadbare guy who had stopped in once or twice. Yes, Patterson had published his little book, but who knew if Hodgson had seen it, and anyway most of the book was basically Green's stuff.

There is no necessity at this point to figure out whose memory failed, as there is really no conflict between the stories. P and G headed south for Labor Day, and they came back. Then they went south again. They said they went to Mt. St. Helens both times. While they were gone the second time, Hodgson called. I don't believe they were interested in Mt. St. Helens. They told everybody and their dogs that they were going to film bigfoot at Bluff Creek, and they did. Why would they be going somewhere else at that point?

I'm just not a trusting guy, I guess.

 

[WGBH]

It was directed at you, and your comment that Gimlin looked you in the eye.

People who con poorly find something else to do or they learn to con well. It's been how many years since the PGF? Lots of time to practice.

Lots of people look me in the eye. Are they all con men?

 

[LTC8K6]

I'll try to find the quote but its seems like he didn't want Patterson stepping on Green's toes; he definitely had a relationship with Green, and Green had the big rep, with all the scientists and the dog and all, while Patterson was just a guy who had stopped in once or twice. Yes, Patterson had published his little book, but who knew if Hodgson had seen it, and anyway most of the book was basically Green's stuff.

Or Green might smell a rat if he were on scene.

 

[GT/CS]

kit wrote:


So, this is interesting. Hodgson called Patterson about the Bluff Creek tracks after Green and Dahinden left. Basically this would have been the weekend after Labor Day. Patterson was supposedly at Mt. St. Helens when Hodgson called. Memory failure? or did Patterson go to Mt. St. Helens every weekend? Why would they go to Mt. St. Helens?

I think P and G were at Bluff Creek on Labor Day, making three sets of prints. Why 3 tracks? That is extraordinary. Multiple tracks!! When did that ever happen? Why would one hoaxer or even two make 3 tracks?

imho, it's possible that Wallace arranged the trackmaking, or helped. Remember Wallace said he told them where to go. I have this vision of Wallace, Patterson and Gimlin walking down a road, each wearing stompers. BYO stompers. Certainly at least one track was a Wallace stomper.

Was Patterson somewhere that had a telephone? Was he camping out in the forest or was he near civilization?

 

[DennyT]

Hodgson at this point says he can't remember who he talked to, Patterson or Patterson's wife. The story has always been it was the wife, and she relayed it to him when he got home from Mt. St. Helens. They actually didn't have their own phone. So who knows. I think it is possible that Hodgson talked to the neighbor whose phone the Pattersons used, and she "relayed it to Patterson when he got home from", say, a pinball tournament.

 

[DennyT]

It is true, as others have pointed out, bigfoot tracks seemed to magically appear wherever Patterson happened to be. What I did not realize is that in several cases, the tracks seemed to match the proportions of the stomper he made around 1961 with guidance from Harvey Anderson. During his 1964 visit to Bluff Creek, giant tracks "appeared" on Leard Meadow Road:

17 inches long and 5 inches across the heel.

(Green op cit p. 115, from Patterson)

 

[DennyT]

There was a phone somewhere near Hodgson's store in Willow Creek, that Patterson used to call Hodgson at 615 after the store closed at 6 pm. Certainly there was no phone in Louse Camp where they camped on the 20th.

 

[GT/CS]

Hodgson at this point says he can't remember who he talked to, Patterson or Patterson's wife. The story has always been it was the wife, and she relayed it to him when he got home from Mt. St. Helens. They actually didn't have their own phone. So who knows. I think it is possible that Hodgson talked to the neighbor whose phone the Pattersons used, and she "relayed it to Patterson when he got home from", say, a pinball tournament.

So Patterson wasn't at Mt St Helens when he got the message, he was at home?
The story has always made me think that he was at Mt St Helens when he heard about the footprints, he suddenly dropped everything and went to California.

 

[DennyT]

Dr. Donald Grieve, British anatomist/gait expert, describing PattyBob, unknowingly describing the effect of the shoulder pads on a normal man in a suit (as paraphrased by Green, in Sasquatch/Apes, p. 126):

...the height of the fingertips above ground and of the hip joint are a similar proportion of the total height to what would be expected in a human, but that the shoulders are about six per cent higher and 30 per cent wider.

and the effect of this, would be, and is, to make the arms look longer:

That means that the arms are only slightly longer than a human's but because of the wide shoulders the arm span would be considerably greater, as it obviously is in the picture. Arms outstretched it would span at least eight feet.

 

[DennyT]

Green said that Hodgson was already expecting Roger...that maybe Hodgson had already called Roger.

I believe that Hodgson was referring to October 20, when Patterson showed up with his big news. He was expecting him to show up sooner. It had been six weeks, roughly, since Hodgson had called him. Hodgson thought Patterson would come immediately....someone who is supposedly interested in filming tracks. Well, of course they actually were back and forth to Bluff Creek several times, but Patterson and Gimlin never told anyone at Willow Creek they were there, never asked for any help finding the tracks, never stopped to shoot the breeze or buy supplies at Willow Creek, until they had all their ducks in a row, on Oct. 20.

 

[DennyT]

It is interesting to consider whether Patterson expected Green and Dahinden to show up after he, Gimlin and/or Wallace made the tracks (in this scenario) over Labor Day weekend, or whether it came as a surprise. I'm sure that Patterson was just pleased that someone found the tracks before the roadgraders obliterated them. Either way, it worked out pretty well for Patterson, as the two experts and the scientists really endorsed the authenticity of the tracks, setting the stage for the film, and giving Patterson grounds for the line about calling Gimlin back because Patterson was afraid of "the other two." Ha ha. The "other two" who made the tracks were probably Gimlin and Wallace!!

The beauty of Green's and Dahinden's visit, of course, for us, is that they so beautifully filmed the Labor Day trackway made, we now know, by a Wallace stomper.

 

[DennyT]

So Patterson wasn't at Mt St Helens when he got the message, he was at home?
The story has always made me think that he was at Mt St Helens when he heard about the footprints, he suddenly dropped everything and went to California.

P and G have always said they were at Mt. St. H. But we don't really know where they were or even who answered the phone.

He certainly didn't drop everything and go to California. By the best story, it was three weeks before they got there. Gimlin says he had to arrange things, for his horses to be fed, etc, before he could leave. How many weeks would that have taken to arrange?? What were they doing during those three weeks? I imagine Patterson was altering the Morris suit, making the mask.

 

[DennyT]

Not knowing the terrain at Bluff Creek, it is interesting to me that Green says that when he came with McLarin the next summer, he discovered that the film site was only a few hundred yards from where they had found the tracks in September. I had assumed the tracks were quite a ways from the film site.
So this perhaps ties the trackmakers to the filmmakers a bit more closely.......

 

[DennyT]

Things have progressed quite a bit since Napier's time. The best skeptical book on Bigfoot is David Daegling's:

http://www.amazon.com/Bigfoot-Exposed-Anthropologist-Examines-Americas/dp/0759105391

Daegling is certainly qualified.

Napier (concerning the terrain of the Bluff Creek area, the epicenter of 'footery): ...a wooded mountainous region of forty square miles covered with dense coniferous vegetation with a heavy understorey of manzanita.... There is no a priori reason why quite a sizeable population of Sasquatch should not hide itself in these mountains and remain undiscovered; no reason, that is, if they were a species that could survive without eating...impoverished [in food supply], even in summer, let alone winter... Bigfoot, p. 83

 

[DennyT]

One of Patterson's compatriots was Prentis Beck, a talented man. Beck helped Patterson with the minature stagecoach project. Patterson listed Beck in the acknowledgment page of his Bigfoot book. Les Johnson, the man who bought land from Pat Patterson's grandfather in the Ahtanum Valley, and successfully resuscitated Roger Patterson four times when he was dying:

....saw a Bigfoot cast that Prentis had. He kept it under the seat of his pickup. Prentis spun a pretty good story to go with the cast. ...I was told that the casts were made from big clown's feet. They were eighteen inches long. Someone who ran with that bunch set up something and made some footprints.

Making of Bigfoot, p. 45-6.

 

[LTC8K6]

Napier is the fellow who apparently could not see Patty's feet when he was first shown the PGF, causing me to wonder what version they showed to him...

 

[SweatyYeti]

P and G have always said they were at Mt. St. H.

But we don't really know where they were or even who answered the phone.

And, in the same post....parnassus wrote:

What were they doing during those three weeks?

I imagine Patterson was altering the Morris suit, making the mask.

parny....you're doing such a good job of "figuring it all out"...via your imagination.....why don't you just answer all of your questions, yourself??

 

[kitakaze]

Sweaty, you claimed I am not answering the questions you give me. You said I was being dishonest. You said I was ignoring questions. You said I was squirming. I have answered every single one of your many serves. I have addressed them sincerely and immediately. I have been trying ironically to get you to return my own serves. Can you please answer the bolded questions in post #2050? They are completely relevant and not in any way hypothetical.

 

[DennyT]

Here is the skinny: Al Hodgson did not call Green when the Labor Day tracks were found. Apparently Syl McCoy did. Apparently Hodgson did not know about the tracks, when out of the blue, Green, whom Al had never met, called, asking him to meet him at the Orleans airport, because McCoy had been called away on account of a fire. So boom there are Green, Dahinden, the tracking dog, trainer and the whole extravaganza sitting in Al's lap. Hodgson says that he didn't think it was right to call Roger in on top of Green, so he waited to call Roger until after Green left.

 

[Drewbot]

parny....you're doing such a good job of "figuring it all out"...via your imagination.....why don't you just answer all of your questions, yourself??

What my head does when Sweaty posts technicolor.