General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[The Fool]

Really? You don't know about the British government so you decide that I'm wrong?

I think you are wrong if you are saying that the separation of church and state in the UK and Israel is comparable.

We have bishops in our non elected house in the legislature. Let me repeat that again, we have CoE bishops in our government.
Enough of a link yet?

enough of a link? If you claim they have a significant influence on the legislature then it would be a link...26 bishops with no political affiliation in a house of 720 members? What legislation have they influenced lately? You also have people in your non elected people in your government due to their medieval titles. Does this mean there is no separation between Medieval Aristocracy and state? The hereditary peers far outnumber the bishops,,,

Really? I mean seriously? We've got a state religion, we're literally and officially a Christian country, and we have Bishops in the unelected house and you don't think that we qualify as a state that has no separation of church and state?

I accept that...what I don't accept is that the state religions of the UK and Israel are in any meaningful way comparable in their influence on the political system of the Nation.

Come off it The Fool, stop living up to your name. You don't have to defend Parky just because he agrees with you on Israel. He said something stupid, so we pointed it out.

I don't recall defending Parky....I do remember taking issue with a comparison you made.

Talk to me about comparability when the UK compulsorily categories its citizens as CofE or not CofE. Talk to me about Comparability when the UK has different laws for its CofE citizens.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I think you are wrong if you are saying that the separation of church and state in the UK and Israel is comparable.

Except I'm not saying that. Rewind back to the beginning of this argument. Parky said that one reason Israel wasn't free (despite the FreedomHouse report) was because there was NO separation of Church and State. We haven't got one either. Just because we're a little less tied to ours doesn't mean it isn't there.

enough of a link? If you claim they have a significant influence on the legislature then it would be a link...26 bishops with no political affiliation in a house of 720 members? What legislation have they influenced lately?

So you don't think that simply having them in the house constitutes a big connection? Wow.

You also have people in your non elected people in your government due to their medieval titles. Does this mean there is no separation between Medieval Aristocracy and state? The hereditary peers far outnumber the bishops,,,

Seriously? You're joking right? You can't be this dim.

I accept that...what I don't accept is that the state religions of the UK and Israel are in any meaningful way comparable in their influence on the political system of the Nation.

What does that matter? That isn't the point that's being argued.

I don't recall defending Parky....I do remember taking issue with a comparison you made.

Except that the comparison was not one of quantity but a yes/no comparison. You are the one who dragged us into this silly pissing contest that has nothing to do with the original argument.

 

[Thunder]

Dude, what would you say are the most reliable sources of information on the Middle East?

Haaretz, the BBC, the NY Times, The Jerusalem Post, Al Jazeera.....

 

[Virus]

Haaretz, the BBC, the NY Times, The Jerusalem Post, Al Jazeera.....

Al Jazeera support the Brotherhood.

 

[Thunder]

Al Jazeera support the Brotherhood.

evidence?

and btw, do you mean the Chief Editor supports the Muslim Brotherhood, or every staff-writer for the paper supports the MB?

and which MB are you talking about? the one in Israel or the one in Egypt?

 

[WildCat]

sigh....26 bishops who have no political affiliation out of 720 people in the house of lords is a strong connection between the legislature and the church of england?

That's 26 more seats than any particular sect of Rabbis are guaranteed to have in the Knesset. In fact, no Rabbi is guaranteed even a single seat in the Knesset.

back on ignore you twit.....

Buh-bye!

Good luck in your futile attempt to demonize Israel without comng across as a raging hypocrite.

 

[Thunder]

ADL slams Facebook

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world...ng-to-remove-third-intifada-fan-page-1.351881

the ADL is slamming Facebook for allowing a page calling for a Third Palestinian Intifada, even though the managers of the site call for peaceful protests.

The ADL also slams the page as promoting "terrorist violence", as if protests and throwing rocks at Occupation forces is "terrorism".

here is the Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/Palestinian.Intifada?sk=app_4949752878

can we get some Arabic translators in here?

 

[tyr_13]

If they are promoting throwing rocks, then they are promoting a act which can kill the people having the stones thrown at them, and the stone throwers when the people with guns use them. It's an irresponsible thing.

Can't speak to the rest of your points.

 

[Skeptic]

I wonder just how OUTRAGED the usual folks here would have been, how much even more would they smear Israel, if the president of Israel was also chief rabbi, like QEII is also the head of the Anglican church.

 

[bikerdruid]

I wonder just how OUTRAGED the usual folks here would have been, how much even more would they smear Israel, if the president of Israel was also chief rabbi, like QEII is also the head of the Anglican church.

the president of israel has real power.
elizabeth is a figurehead with no real power.
huge difference....
btw...she is also queen of canada, where we have no state religion.

 

[Thunder]

If they are promoting throwing rocks, then they are promoting a act which can kill the people having the stones thrown at them, and the stone throwers when the people with guns use them. It's an irresponsible thing.

Can't speak to the rest of your points.

throwing rocks is not terrorism.

 

[Babbylonian]

throwing rocks is not terrorism.

I've read Tyr's post four times and I can't find where he said throwing rocks was terrorism. Are you in that big a hurry to go off the rails in this thread?

 

[angrysoba]

Does anyone have any information on celebrations that were purported to have happened in Rafah following the announcement of the murder of the Fogel family?

From what I have found it is clear that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have said that the murders were a "natural response" (and ANTPogo, or others who know Arabic, could you tell me if that is some compound word in Arabic that is used commonly by groups in Palestine for neither condoning or condemning terrorist attacks that they don't claim to be responsible for) suggesting that they know full well Palestinians or a Palestinian is behind them.

Yet, at the same time there have been accusations that a Thai worker was behind the murders, an accusation I have seen no corroboration for. It's obviously trying to have things both ways by saying that the murders were a "natural response" to Israeli actions while also saying that no Palestinians were responsible for the murders.

Does anyone have any useful sources on this?

 

[Thunder]

Hamas usually takes credit for their attacks. Just sayin'.

 

[Thunder]

I've read Tyr's post four times and I can't find where he said throwing rocks was terrorism. Are you in that big a hurry to go off the rails in this thread?

no, the ADL is suggesting that throwing rocks is terrorism.

the major activities of the 1st and 2nd Intifada was thousands of Palestinians taking to the streets, chucking stones at the IDF invaders.

 

[angrysoba]

Hamas usually takes credit for their attacks. Just sayin'.

I know. That's beside the point.

Saying the murders were a "natural response to Israeli policy" and the murders weren't even carried out by Palestinians but a Thai worker is trying to have it both ways. Just sayin'.

 

[Babbylonian]

no, the ADL is suggesting that throwing rocks is terrorism.

Actually, the quote from the article mentions "terrorist violence." I'd agree that the word "terrorist" is inaccurate and deceptive, but there's no question in my mind that promoting a new intifada is indeed promotion of violence. Whether the violence is just or unjust isn't really relevant to the ADL's complaint against Facebook which is that the page should be removed as a violation of their own TOS.

 

[mortimer]

the major activities of the 1st and 2nd Intifada was thousands of Palestinians taking to the streets, chucking stones at the IDF invaders.

Guess the hundreds of Israeli civilians killed during the intifadas was just a minor activity.

 

[Thunder]

Guess the hundreds of Israeli civilians killed during the intifadas was just a minor activity.

just because terrorist acts did take place during both Intifadas does not mean that all acts during the Intifadas were acts of terrorism.

however, the ADL seems to think that advocating for a new Intifada is the same as calling for bus bombings.

....or worse, the ADL is suggesting that chucking stones at armored personnel carriers and well-protected soldiers, is terrorism.

 

[Thunder]

I know. That's beside the point.

Saying the murders were a "natural response to Israeli policy" and the murders weren't even carried out by Palestinians but a Thai worker is trying to have it both ways. Just sayin'.

Hamas might simply be taking the position that since the victims were settlers, it was a positive act, regardless of who killed them and what the motive was.

Again, if Hamas nor Islamic Jihad still has not taken credit for the attack, that suggests it may not have been politically motivated terror.