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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Well, I gotta agree with you there, he posted the report showing that there were no mass graves found at Treblinka. I'm not going to bother googling it up but anyone interested can.

Of course, in spite of the explicit statement from the report that no sign of any mass graves were found, Muhlenkamp managed to interpret the report as proving conclusive evidence that there were mass graves. So, he distinguished himself as a holohoax debunker and a holohoax promoter in the same posting. Incredable'

How about, instead of lying, dodging and trolling, you actually
engage in some real debate? Quote the explicit statement that
disavows mass graves.

One would assume that if ashes were found at a depth of 7.5 metres
that that qualifies as a mass grave. So far, the only evidence that Saggy
has presented are the assertions of the voices inside his head. Saggy,
<snip>, there probably isn't
much research propping up your pretensions.

Edited (<snip>'ed, breach of rule 0, rule 12.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 
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One would assume that if ashes were found at a depth of 7.5 metres
that that qualifies as a mass grave.
Yes, but is this the crater 7.5 meter deep where ashes were found?

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg

So far, the only evidence that Saggy
has presented are the assertions of the voices inside his head. Saggy,
<snip>, there probably isn't
much research propping up your pretensions.
Edited by Locknar: 
Moderated content removed.

You need to be careful, Saggy. Pooshoodog claims to be psychiatrist and has the power to apply for compulsory drugging orders. Pity his poor patients, sure a case of the blind trying to lead the blind.
 
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I successfully added the Rabbit to my ignore list. The list is only one name
long, but if anyone gives a rat's *ss, LGR is the all time leader at the
former RODOH forum in promoting the ignore function. I trust that most
others have have taken that step here.
 
From the report of 29 November 1945 (Investigating Treblinka):


"In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay."

2 Hectares is about the size of 3 football fields. Considering that the ash remains of
American adults average 5 lbs, one should assume that the Treblinka victims being
comprised of many children and smaller adults -the average WW II European Jew
being substantially smaller than current Americans - would have produced only a
couple of pounds of ash per victim. One can only speculate about the precise number
of burnt remains contained in a two hectare area, and this report does not offer the
depth of these ashes, nor can we guess what percentage of these ashes would have
blown away in the two years between the Nazi cremations and the Soviet investigations.

But one thing is certain- an area of two hectares covered with human ash represents a
vast crime of mass murder. So when Saggy states that the Soviet report explicitly disavows
mass graves, what does that say about Saggy?
 
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From the report of 29 November 1945 (Investigating Treblinka):


"In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay."

2 Hectares is about the size of 3 football fields. Considering that the ash remains of
American adults average 5 lbs, one should assume that the Treblinka victims being
comprised of many children and smaller adults -the average WW II European Jew
being substantially smaller than current Americans - would have produced only a
couple of pounds of ash per victim. One can only speculate about the precise number
of burnt remains contained in a two hectare area, and this report does not offer the
depth of these ashes, nor can we guess what percentage of these ashes would have
blown away in the two years between the Nazi cremations and the Soviet investigations.

But one thing is certain- an area of two hectares covered with human ash represents a
vast crime of mass murder. So when Saggy states that the Soviet report explicitly disavows
mass graves, what does that say about Saggy?

Would you be able to point out the rough location of this gigantic 25 meter wide crater and this 2 hectares of ash from this September 1944 photo?

http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/images/IndexPic.jpg
 
Saggy referred to Majdanek and Auschwitz.
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... as the only two surviving gas chambers. Which is a lie, since Dachau has a fully functional gas chamber, which has been pointed out to zie before.
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You would draw my attention to some higher resolution photographs if you wanted to convince anybody of anything.
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aaaaaaaaaaaand the goalposts move. What resolution, precisely, would satisfy you, and what to you expect to see in them that is not obvious in those I cited?

Trick question: it's obvious that the answer is "none, because I refuse to acknowledge reality."
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And you wouldn't include the famous photo of the American soldier in front of the ominous looking door if you're trying to make an argument about Dachau gas chambers. Are these the stills from that lame newsreel footage from 1945?
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No, had you bothered to actually look at the photos linked from that page, you would see that most of them were taken by Dr. Daniel Keren, and the last is credited to Johannes Maria Lenz, in Christus in Dachau oder Christus der Sieger.

Oh, wait -- you thought the thumbnails were all that were there?

Denier "scholarship" in action.

And where, in the photos I cited, is there an American soldier in front of a door?
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At least show some photos of bins that open to the outside and are screened.
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I did. You sneered.
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The quality of the photos precludes making any definitive judgment here.
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Show of hands, please: anyone who has actually *looked* at more than the thumbnails agree with this? I know Dr. Keren personally, I can get scans at whatever resolution you deem necessary.

*After* you explain what, exactly, you'll be able to see that you can't in the photos at which you haven't even bothered to look...
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But based on what I can see and my (not) extensive experience with shower rooms and gas chambers, I'd say this looks closer to my high school shower room than it does the gas chamber at San Quintin.
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Remind me again -- how many people was San Quentin < note the spelling, gas chamber expert > designed to kill at one time?
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As long as we're on the subject of bad propaganda fakes, why don't you show me the video of Hitler dancing his "happy jig" after the fall of France to prove he was poofer? Or the bucket of heads the Soviets found at Auschwitz?
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We're not on that subject, but if you can document me commenting on either of these topics, you might possibly have the beginnings of a start toward an inclination of a point.

But since you can't, *your* rather obvious attempt at a derail is noted.
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"All those people" and you can come up with only one? From a television show?
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Which part of "Let's start with..." is confusing you?

And no not from a *television* show, I referred you to a *radio* programme *about* her. I was trying to be nice and not make you read a book, such as "Hana's Suitcase".

Once you're done sneering at this 13 year old's memory, we can move on to other examples, at which you will also sneer, since that's quite obviously all you got.
.
Well if the television show documented her fate (like you said it did) you know what happened to her. If she was never heard from again it was because she died or was rendered mute.
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No one has mentioned a television show except you. Another example of deniers' just making it up as they go along, instead doing that whole, you know, *research* thingy to support their crap.

And how did she die in the camp, if they were all just way stops where Jews "got clean and went their merry way?"

Got any of that, you know, evidence thingy to show that she was ill in any way at all before being sent to the camp in which she died?
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You're right. I don't.
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You care enough to continue to make up lies about him, though...
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Sorry. I meant the steam chamber at Treblinka. Or maybe he was part of the lorry load of babies Elie Weasel saw dumped into the flaming pit.
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No, the more likely option is that you are desperate to avoid actually *learning* about the history you're so rabid to deny.

Henio was not at Treblinka, nor at A/B or Buchenwald.

All you are doing is showing what a vile entity you are when you so obviously try to distract from your willful ignorance.
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I mock willful ignorance and baldfaced liars. That is all.
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But you forgot the part where you actually *demonstrate* any such willful ignorance or lies.

Unlike I have done with you, with just the examples of Henio Zytomirski and Hana Brady.
.
 
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How will Holocaust Denial manage when all the survivors are dead?

The melancholy fact is that since Holocaust Denial is in such a parlous state, the question has to be asked will it still survive when all the survivors have (regrettably) passed on?

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2011/03/09/17556966.html

For 50 years, Olsson kept quiet about her one-year experiences in concentration camps during the Holocaust.

Now, she uses her gruesome recollections of "surprise soup" that included human remains, mass graves and people drinking their own urine as a way to get through to students across the world.

So far, she has spoken to over one million people in schools.

The thought of one million children being exposed to "surprise soup" is rather mind boggling. One can't help thinking if "surprise soup" is the best she can come up with, it might have been better if she had decided to keep quiet for another fifty years.

And in the wonderful doublespeak that is one of the joys of modern living, this is described as "Auschwitz survivor brings message of acceptance to Edmonton"

Apparently she has been doing this for five years at least and no-one taps her on the shoulder and says "Errr, Eva, heart-warming story of the triumph of the human spirit, but is it possible you could drop the surprise soup?"
 
... Wait...

So your argument is that HD will struggle since the best evidence for there not being a holocaust is the people who survived something that didn't happen?

(
 
redtail, my liberal humanism dies hard and I like to think that of the Jewish survivors of WW2, the ones that go around schools spouting this kind of nonsense are an unrepresentative sample. Pushed to forefield by media prurience and cynical community leadership.

I have no evidence of this, I admit, but I like to believe it.
 
Could someone dig up that post where LGR admitted he was trolling with this crap?
 
Is it too much to say: "although I believe the suffering of Jews was without parallel in human history, it would be sensible if community leaders did exercise a little bit of quality control before targeting the young?"

I mean all I am asking is a "no soup with human remains" policy here. I am not disputing human soap, I am not disputing human lampshades, I am not disputing human fertilizer. Just one little plea....no human soup. Is it really so much to ask?

Let me bend over backwards and be charitable - perhaps she genuinely believed she might have been given human remains soup at Auschwitz. Still could not a case be made that someone could step aside and say "Eva, you treasure, no one else remembers human remains soup. Is it possible you might have been mistaken? Why not substitute it with a story about how you were taken to a gas chamber and then water came out of the shower heads instead. That always goes down well."
 
Is it too much to say: "although I believe the suffering of Jews was without parallel in human history, it would be sensible if community leaders did exercise a little bit of quality control before targeting the young?"

I mean all I am asking is a "no soup with human remains" policy here. I am not disputing human soap, I am not disputing human lampshades, I am not disputing human fertilizer. Just one little plea....no human soup. Is it really so much to ask?

Let me bend over backwards and be charitable - perhaps she genuinely believed she might have been given human remains soup at Auschwitz. Still could not a case be made that someone could step aside and say "Eva, you treasure, no one else remembers human remains soup. Is it possible you might have been mistaken? Why not substitute it with a story about how you were taken to a gas chamber and then water came out of the shower heads instead. That always goes down well."
I'd hate to live in your head.
 
redtail, my liberal humanism dies hard and I like to think that of the Jewish survivors of WW2, the ones that go around schools spouting this kind of nonsense are an unrepresentative sample. Pushed to forefield by media prurience and cynical community leadership.

I have no evidence of this, I admit, but I like to believe it.

Nope, degenerate lies, and the burning desire to foist them off on the goyim when they are as young as possible, is the norm for the tribe. There is now legislation in many states mandating that the holohoax be taught in public schools in ALL grades starting with KINDERGARTEN. For more on the subject, with photos and links to KINDERGARTEN texts, visit, scroll down,

www.holohoax101.com
 
Nope, degenerate lies, and the burning desire to foist them off on the goyim when they are as young as possible, is the norm for the tribe. There is now legislation in many states mandating that the holohoax be taught in public schools in ALL grades starting with KINDERGARTEN. For more on the subject, with photos and links to KINDERGARTEN texts, visit, scroll down,

www.holohoax101.com

From your link

Please explain this. You've spent pages denigrating the "witness" testimony on here as unreliable. Then your site offers this up


None of the defendants at Nuremberg admitted to any part of the holocaust or any direct knowledge of the Ernst Kaltenbrunner holocaust, and only one, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, head of the Reich Security Main Office, was charged with having an operational role in the killing of Jews. He testified as follows:

DR. KAUFFMANN: What attitude did you adopt when you heard about it?

KALTENBRUNNER: I had no knowledge of Hitler's order to Heydrich regarding the final solution of the Jewish problem at the time I took up my office. In the summer of 1943 I gathered from the foreign press and through the enemy radio...

That is, he testified that he had no direct part in the holocaust, and only learned of it via the foreign press and enemy radio. See the testimony here http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/04-11-46.asp
Kaltenbrunner also testified

COL. BROOKHART: Witness after witness, by testimony and affidavit, has said that the gas chamber killings were done on general or specific orders of Kaltenbrunner.

KALTENBRUNNER: Show me one of those men or any of those orders. It is utterly impossible.

COL. BROOKHART: Practically all of the orders came through Kaltenbrunner.

KALTENBRUNNER: Entirely impossible.

The only man charged at Nuremberg with participation in the holocaust did not plead that he was "Following orders', he testified that it was "Entirely impossible".

The argument here seems to be that since Kaltenbrunner denied involvement it completely defeats that many witnesses who say he ordered it. Am I misunderstanding this? Because the logic is ridiculous.

Let's see witness after witness, Germans btw, testify that Kaltenbrunner ordered them to kill the Jews. But Kaltenbrunner says they are all liars so case closed, they must all be liars.

It couldn't be that Kaltenbrunner is the liar? :confused::boggled::confused::boggled:
 
Nope, degenerate lies, and the burning desire to foist them off on the goyim when they are as young as possible, is the norm for the tribe. There is now legislation in many states mandating that the holohoax be taught in public schools in ALL grades starting with KINDERGARTEN. For more on the subject, with photos and links to KINDERGARTEN texts, visit, scroll down,

www.holohoax101.com
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You mean that link which when followed leads to a claim specifically that Florida schools do this, but if one bothers to check the link you show, then drills down to Florida, one finds the following:
FLORIDA ACADEMIC STANDARDS
Standard Type: History/Social Studies
Date Implemented: 1996
History/Social Studies: The Holocaust is not addressed explicitly in Florida’s Sunshine State Standards: Social Studies.
Web Site: http://www.firn.edu/doe/curric/prek12/frame2.htm.

Standard Type: English/Language Arts
Date Implemented: 2001
English/Language Arts: The Holocaust is not addressed explicitly in Florida’s Sunshine State Standards: Language Arts.
Web Site: http://www.firn.edu/doe/curric/prek12/frame2.htm
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...which has been pointed out to you before, making your claim above a knowing untruth -- that is to say, a degenerate lie?
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