headscratcher4
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Anti-free speech laws are reprehensible. But, the fact that this man's stupidity is elevated to a crime by a dumb law doesn't give its content any more weight or authority.
Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread
- Thread starter kageki
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TSR
Illuminator
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And the specific page on which Weisel writes this from his own personal knowledge?
What's that?
You don't know the page because haven't actually read the book in question?
Because if you had, you would know that he reports this as something that he was *told*, and so is at best a secondary source. Got a primary source for this claim?
What's that?
No?
This is because there *is* no one who claims to have personally witnessed this.
Nor was this "testimony" even if Weisel had reported it from personal experience. It would be at best, an anecdote.
Now, as to actual *testimony*, we have, for example, Private Boeck, quoted by Hermann Langbien:
Care to comment?
But back to your major point: this would be the Anders Mathisen who was convicted of fraud? The one who is only MP because he will not resign, but who is not a member of the party whom he purports to represent? The one that cites Ernst Zundel as a source (who, it should be remembered, could not convince two different juries of his peers that he believed the denial crap he spewed and had to fall back on the defense that lying isn't illegal?)
The Mathisen who only spent "several months" researching the issue, apparently most of it on denier sites, since the most basic research on the matter of the gas chambers would reveal the Krakow Institute report on HCn residues at Auschwitz, thereby torpedoing the claim that no evidence exists for those chambers? Or Father DuBois' work documenting mass graves, nuking his other claim in the article you mentioned?
*That* Mathisen?
Who, BTW, is a member of the Sami Parliment, the equivalent of, say, a city councilman.
Shall I start posting the names of actual historians who have spent years researching the matter from primary sources who contradict this fool?
Found those Dachau pics you lied about yet?
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The law you are citing has nothing to do with his statements. We got more active and out-spoken Holocuast deniers in this country that have never been prosecuted for their garbage. The only punishment this guy will face is public ridicule for his nonsense.
And he's an MP in the samiparliament:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Parliament_of_Norway
brodski
Tea-Time toad
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If the laws quoted by saggy are accurate, they don't appear to outlaw Holocaust denial.
Because the kooks are trying to claim that it isn't "just them". Of course, if you actually investigate their sources you will find there is nothing there. A good example of this is Aaron Russo. I have seen kook after kook claim Russo's words as gospel but nothing Russo said could be verified.
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
... in other words, not a real MP at all. Why am I not surprised that Saggy didn't mention this?
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
That sound you hear is the shout of the other Sami (what used to be called Laplanders) parliament members saying they want nothing to do with this moron.
Interesting. Not so much that a minor politician in a European country would make such a public statement but that the press would actually pick it up. You know, what with the death of the "denial movement" and all that.
If your wiki source for Norwegian law is accurate, it's possible they could prosecute him. If he had said the Armenians are a bunch of whiners or those people in Darfur should just shut up with their complaining he wouldn't have any legal troubles. But some hate speech is more hateful than others. At the very least, he'd better not travel abroad any time soon.
little grey rabbit
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Just a warning for the innocent naifs of JREF, this person has a tendency to also simultaneously run "denier" handles as well.
If someone turns up talking about how in Kiev the football stadium was used as a holding camp prior to the deportation of Jews
http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.c...he-ravine-walls-of-babi-yar-and-also-rumbula/
or starts talking about how his landlord, Mr Rosenblatt, stole his record collection - its probably Pooshoodog
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Check this related story on a UN racism summit ..... note the reason that the US and several other shabbas goy nations won't be attending, they're afraid of what Ahmadinejad will say !!! .....
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/04/22/denmark-joins-controversial-summit-on-racism/
Denmark joins controversial summit on racism
The Danish Foreign Ministry decided to participate in the UN’s Durban II conference on racism at the ambassadorial level which is taking place this week. The controversial summit is taking place in Geneva, and is being attended by most EU member nations, as well as other global heavyweights; but several key players, including the US, Germany, Canada, Italy and Australia are merely observing out of protest.
Politiken reports that since Denmark waited until late in the day to commit to attending the conference, it was unclear until the last minute whether they would join the US, Germany, Canada, Israel, Australia, Italy and the Netherlands as observers rather than active participants.
Those nations have declined to participate in the conference on racism for various reasons. Canada and Australia declined over fears that the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will again deny that the Holocaust happened and speak harshly against Israel – which happened as predicted on Monday. Germany also declined over the Holocaust issue, but it’s unclear precisely why Italy abstained.
After the Russian chief negotiator changed the wording in the final document to condemn anyone denying the Holocaust, Denmark’s Foreign Minister Per Stig Moller felt it was acceptable to join the conference. The fact that the majority of EU nations are also taking part helped encouraged the Danes to follow suit. The goal of the summit is to help end racism and promote healing in ethnically tense nations.
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/04/22/denmark-joins-controversial-summit-on-racism/
Denmark joins controversial summit on racism
The Danish Foreign Ministry decided to participate in the UN’s Durban II conference on racism at the ambassadorial level which is taking place this week. The controversial summit is taking place in Geneva, and is being attended by most EU member nations, as well as other global heavyweights; but several key players, including the US, Germany, Canada, Italy and Australia are merely observing out of protest.
Politiken reports that since Denmark waited until late in the day to commit to attending the conference, it was unclear until the last minute whether they would join the US, Germany, Canada, Israel, Australia, Italy and the Netherlands as observers rather than active participants.
Those nations have declined to participate in the conference on racism for various reasons. Canada and Australia declined over fears that the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will again deny that the Holocaust happened and speak harshly against Israel – which happened as predicted on Monday. Germany also declined over the Holocaust issue, but it’s unclear precisely why Italy abstained.
After the Russian chief negotiator changed the wording in the final document to condemn anyone denying the Holocaust, Denmark’s Foreign Minister Per Stig Moller felt it was acceptable to join the conference. The fact that the majority of EU nations are also taking part helped encouraged the Danes to follow suit. The goal of the summit is to help end racism and promote healing in ethnically tense nations.
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TSR
Illuminator
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Really? Which para contains this reason? Looks to *me* like was more "abhorrence" than "afraid".
And BTW, the countries mentioned *did* attend, just didn't participate.
And since this article is roughly two years old that lie, and your use of the future tense, shows us once again the 'quality' of denier research.
Found them Dachau pics yet, Saggs?
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No holocaust denier in Norway has been prosecuted for their view on history. Norwegian freedom of speech prevents that and the cited law is only used in extreme cases of harrasment.
pooshoodog
New Blood
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Rabbit, I assure you that the esteemed posters on this forum have little
interest in your reports of past goings on at the tiny RODOH forum where
you first distinguished yourself as a worthless troll. Go scamper along and
stop annoying people with your tangential slobber.
To continue to address Dogzilla's ludicrous assertion that no investigations
of Treblinka have turned up human remains, I quote a small portion of an
article posted by Roberto at the Holocaust Controversies Website. I suggest
that readers visit that site for more complete information on the issue of
forensic examination of Nazi mass murder.
"The signs of intensive robbery-digging are also mentioned in Judge Zdzisław Łukaszkiewicz' report about the examination of the site and excavations he undertook shortly after the aforementioned inspection, between 9 and 13 November 1945, though he preferred not to mention where the bombs and bomb craters he encountered came from, probably in order to keep himself out of trouble. For Soviet troops were taking part in the scavenging, bringing along mines and blind bombs from nearby Ceranów airport and setting them off in the mass graves to make easier their search for treasures they expected to have been buried along with the victims. Considering the constraints he was working under, Łukaszkiewicz did a thorough examination, as is acknowledged even by Mattogno & Graf, who provide what they claim to be a complete translation of the report of 13 November 1945 signed by Examining Judge Łukaszkiewicz and State Attorney Maciejewski. M&G also quote parts of Łukaszkiewicz' protocol dated 29 December 1945, which was presented by the Soviets at the Nuremberg Trial as Document USSR-344. All these quotes are transcribed in an earlier blog, so in the following I shall only quote the parts of Łukaszkiewicz' reports highlighted in that blog.
From the report of 13 November 1945:
The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition. The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.
From the report of 29 November 1945:
In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay."
interest in your reports of past goings on at the tiny RODOH forum where
you first distinguished yourself as a worthless troll. Go scamper along and
stop annoying people with your tangential slobber.
To continue to address Dogzilla's ludicrous assertion that no investigations
of Treblinka have turned up human remains, I quote a small portion of an
article posted by Roberto at the Holocaust Controversies Website. I suggest
that readers visit that site for more complete information on the issue of
forensic examination of Nazi mass murder.
"The signs of intensive robbery-digging are also mentioned in Judge Zdzisław Łukaszkiewicz' report about the examination of the site and excavations he undertook shortly after the aforementioned inspection, between 9 and 13 November 1945, though he preferred not to mention where the bombs and bomb craters he encountered came from, probably in order to keep himself out of trouble. For Soviet troops were taking part in the scavenging, bringing along mines and blind bombs from nearby Ceranów airport and setting them off in the mass graves to make easier their search for treasures they expected to have been buried along with the victims. Considering the constraints he was working under, Łukaszkiewicz did a thorough examination, as is acknowledged even by Mattogno & Graf, who provide what they claim to be a complete translation of the report of 13 November 1945 signed by Examining Judge Łukaszkiewicz and State Attorney Maciejewski. M&G also quote parts of Łukaszkiewicz' protocol dated 29 December 1945, which was presented by the Soviets at the Nuremberg Trial as Document USSR-344. All these quotes are transcribed in an earlier blog, so in the following I shall only quote the parts of Łukaszkiewicz' reports highlighted in that blog.
From the report of 13 November 1945:
The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition. The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.
From the report of 29 November 1945:
In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay."
Well, I gotta agree with you there, he posted the report showing that there were no mass graves found at Treblinka. I'm not going to bother googling it up but anyone interested can.
Of course, in spite of the explicit statement from the report that no sign of any mass graves were found, Muhlenkamp managed to interpret the report as proving conclusive evidence that there were mass graves. So, he distinguished himself as a holohoax debunker and a holohoax promoter in the same posting. Incredable'
little grey rabbit
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How tragic it was that these gallant investigators forgot to take photographs of these 6 meter deep and 25 meter wide craters.
They seemed to have pointed their cameras in every direction but where this gigantic disturbance was located
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp44.jpg
Oh wait here it is, the camera seems to have suffered the "mass grave" curse - a mysterious infliction that whenever a camera is pointed at a mass grave it loses definition
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg
Saggy referred to Majdanek and Auschwitz.
You would draw my attention to some higher resolution photographs if you wanted to convince anybody of anything. And you wouldn't include the famous photo of the American soldier in front of the ominous looking door if you're trying to make an argument about Dachau gas chambers. Are these the stills from that lame newsreel footage from 1945?
At least show some photos of bins that open to the outside and are screened.
The quality of the photos precludes making any definitive judgment here. But based on what I can see and my (not) extensive experience with shower rooms and gas chambers, I'd say this looks closer to my high school shower room than it does the gas chamber at San Quintin.
As long as we're on the subject of bad propaganda fakes, why don't you show me the video of Hitler dancing his "happy jig" after the fall of France to prove he was poofer? Or the bucket of heads the Soviets found at Auschwitz?
"All those people" and you can come up with only one? From a television show?
Well if the television show documented her fate (like you said it did) you know what happened to her. If she was never heard from again it was because she died or was rendered mute.
You're right. I don't.
Sorry. I meant the steam chamber at Treblinka. Or maybe he was part of the lorry load of babies Elie Weasel saw dumped into the flaming pit.
I mock willful ignorance and baldfaced liars. That is all.
TheRedWorm
I AM the Red Worm!
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Can't you answer a question, coward?
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