Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kevin_Lowe]

Lets assume for a moment that RS is indeed independently wealthy, lets also assume that the Kerchers are indeed trying to empty the pockets of RS with this civil lawsuit.
From this it still doesn't follow that the Kerchers do this purely for their own personal 'get rich quick' gain. For all you know they plan to donate it all to charity.

For all I know Raffaele, if exonerated, will use the money to build a doomsday device and destroy all life on Earth. Anything's possible. Some things are not very likely.

 

[colonelhall]

A father loses his daughter through a vile murder. He has to endure a long legal process before the culprits are found guilty by a unanimous verdict. One cannot imagine the pain he has suffered.

He chooses to believe the evidence that was presented, he chooses to believe the unanimous verdict of the jury. The appeal process only lengthens his pain and results in him being out of pocket, due to the visits to Italy that he has had to make.

In the meantime, a concerted campaign to release these murderers is conducted via the media. One of the killers becomes a media darling, attracting creepy internet fans. Mr. Kercher has to endure fabricated stories that appear to make the murderer the victim of the piece.

In spite of this he has endured a dignified silence, until he feels that the record should be put straight.

For this he is vilified by the likes of Kevin Lowe who accuses him of only being interested in making money out of the case. He spins his take on the case any which way he can, covering the bankruptcy of his theories with smokescreens such as does Solecitto have money or not and making outlandish suggestions about the morality of this poor man. All the time dismissing any opposing views with suggestions that others are less intelligent than himself, so they must be wrong.

I could go on, but really this board has degenerated to such an extent that most reasonable people have left. I shall try to be more disciplined and leave Kevin preaching to the few who choose to return.

 

[Amazer]

For all I know Raffaele, if exonerated, will use the money to build a doomsday device and destroy all life on Earth. Anything's possible. Some things are not very likely.

I agree that the above isn't very likely.

I can however imagine that Mr. Kercher has little interest in this 'blood' money for his own personal gain but would instead do something with it by which Meredith will be remembered. It's what I would do were I in his shoes.

 

[zeb]

I agree that the above isn't very likely.

I can however imagine that Mr. Kercher has little interest in this 'blood' money for his own personal gain but would instead do something with it by which Meredith will be remembered. It's what I would do were I in his shoes.

The fact here is why has Mr Kerchere Retaining this lawyer and who is paying this lawyer.
To me it seems that this lawyer has sent Mr Kerchere down the gardan path.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

appeal

The appeal process only lengthens his pain and results in him being out of pocket, due to the visits to Italy that he has had to make.

Colonelhall,

The defendants have a right to appeal.

 

[bri1]

A father loses his daughter through a vile murder. He has to endure a long legal process before the culprits are found guilty by a unanimous verdict. One cannot imagine the pain he has suffered.

He chooses to believe the evidence that was presented, he chooses to believe the unanimous verdict of the jury. The appeal process only lengthens his pain and results in him being out of pocket, due to the visits to Italy that he has had to make.

In the meantime, a concerted campaign to release these murderers is conducted via the media. One of the killers becomes a media darling, attracting creepy internet fans. Mr. Kercher has to endure fabricated stories that appear to make the murderer the victim of the piece.

In spite of this he has endured a dignified silence, until he feels that the record should be put straight.

For this he is vilified by the likes of Kevin Lowe who accuses him of only being interested in making money out of the case. He spins his take on the case any which way he can, covering the bankruptcy of his theories with smokescreens such as does Solecitto have money or not and making outlandish suggestions about the morality of this poor man. All the time dismissing any opposing views with suggestions that others are less intelligent than himself, so they must be wrong.

I could go on, but really this board has degenerated to such an extent that most reasonable people have left. I shall try to be more disciplined and leave Kevin preaching to the few who choose to return.

We are not Amanda Knox's fans. We are people who believe that a miscarriage of justice has occurred.
John Kercher has written numerous articles, and his representative, Maresca, has made many, many statements on his behalf. I don't think this is silence.
If Amanda and Raffaele were guilty, then much of the blame for the doubt surrounding their involvement would be placed squarely at the door of the investigators. Irregularities, incomptetence and dishonesty have marred this investigation- if they hadn't we would have:
seen (or heard) the 2nd interrogation of Amanda, and according to the guilters, been convinced of her culpability,
we would be convinced by the bra clasp evidence, which would've been collected immediately and examined by a unbiased forensic team,
we would have seen crime scene videos where we could see a decent level of forensic investigation (instead of investigators with soiled gloves, changed rarely, scrubbing at samples like a cleaner, not a scientist, using items from the scene as makeshift wrapping for 'evidence', and making an absolte appalling mess of Meredith's room).
Whether you think Amanda and Raff are innocent or guilty, you should be disgusted by the investigation- where's Mr Kercher's criticism of this? If the investigation had been better there would be far fewer people believing in innocence, and Amanda Knox wouldn't be viewed as a victim.

 

[colonelhall]

"The defendants have a right to appeal."

Who says that they don't?

"John Kercher has written numerous articles"

Three, at the last count.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

one has to accept the system as a whole

"The defendants have a right to appeal."

Who says that they don't?

"John Kercher has written numerous articles"

Three, at the last count.

Colonelhall,

In one of his articles Mr. Kercher wrote words to the effect, "If Amanda does not get the results she wants from her first appeal, she can appeal to the SC." The above is a paraphrase, and he also went on to say that the appeal process would lengthen his family's pain. Mr. Kercher's choice of words could have been better. He made Amanda sound like a child who goes first to one parent, then to the other, to get permission to do something that the first parent forbade. The legal apparatus in Italy meant that Amanda had to face three prosecutors (in effect) and Raffaele had to face two, what with the civil suit and the slander suit. But it also makes the appeal automatic. That is just the way it is.

 

[zeb]

Mr Kercher

Colonelhall
I would like to point out to you that Mr Kercher is a freelance reporter.
So why did he not make a deal with a newspaper and reported from the first trail.
I mean day one to the end.
I am sure that this would be a plus for any news paper.
The head line? The father of Meredith writes for our news paper from the front line.
But there again he saying that it cost him £40.000 pounds to be at the trail for one day only, at the first day of the trail.
And one day only at the end of the trail, in my book that is a lot of money for two day trips to Italy.
£20.000pounds per day.
even if they spent a night in a top hotel that seems to me a very lot of money.
And then Mr Kercher post in the D Mail three times just before the appeal.
And seeing the D mail is trying to out do the Sun in crap reporting.
It makes on wonder where Mr Kercher stands.

 

[RoseMontague]

I am glad that Mr. Kercher has decided to discuss the evidence in this case but I am surprised that there have not been many comments on it. I discussed some of this in my previous post and here are a few more:

Guede, who admitted having been in the cottage on the night of the murder, fled the premises and went to a disco before escaping to Germany, where he was arrested. So who cleaned up the house in an attempt to remove all traces of their presence that night?

Perhaps nobody cleaned up all traces of their presence and the lack of proof of their presence means they were not present.

Knox described the position of Meredith’s body and how she had died, although she had not been able to see into Meredith’s room when the door was broken down by the police.

I believe she had the position of the body wrong (the wardrobe) perhaps because that is what someone else described to her, it seems to contradict her having knowledge of this, imo. It is obvious that she knew about the foot, simply because of the cries of "A Foot, A Foot". The evidence also indicates she was also told some things in the police car and much of this information was in the papers within 24 hours. I guess Mr. Kercher is not aware that the door was not broken down by the police.

As for the “break-in”, the police immediately noticed that glass from a broken window was on top of clothes supposedly scattered by an intruder. The glass would have been under the clothes if the window had been broken before the room was ransacked.

I believe the clothes were already there and Rudy had no interest in going through the piles of clothes on the floor. I see evidence of a messy room rather than one that had been ransacked.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Colonelhall,

In one of his articles Mr. Kercher wrote words to the effect, "If Amanda does not get the results she wants from her first appeal, she can appeal to the SC." The above is a paraphrase, and he also went on to say that the appeal process would lengthen his family's pain. Mr. Kercher's choice of words could have been better. He made Amanda sound like a child who goes first to one parent, then to the other, to get permission to do something that the first parent forbade. The legal apparatus in Italy meant that Amanda had to face three prosecutors (in effect) and Raffaele had to face two, what with the civil suit and the slander suit. But it also makes the appeal automatic. That is just the way it is.

I commend John Kercher and his family, they have largely remained below the media radar I have seen may be 4 or 5 UK newspaper articles since Meredith murder and yes they have covered his\their views of the case but mainly they talk of Meredith the person not Meredith the victim, I have never seen them on UK TV talking about the judicial process. I do believe they have the same rights as Amanda’s family to speak about their perspective of the ongoing appeal some people will agree with his\their views whilst others will not. However, it should be of no surprise to anyone that his views are consistent with the prosecutions or the verdict of the trial. The judicial process is equally as hard on both families for different reasons. Nonetheless regardless of the outcome nothing will change for the Kercher family, a simple fact.

 

[zeb]

Mr J Kercher

RoseMontague.
What I think is J Kercher as be lead down the garden path.
And now I got a funny feeling that he is reading other web sites, and working out what realy happen to Meredith.
This is going to take time, but there again, time takes time to heal
Do I hate J Kercher? No I do not? Do I feel sorry for him yes I do.
But hopfully he can look at the big picture, and see that he has be lead down the garden path to nothing.
Hope that he can see Meredith, as the person who he loved and not the person that the media makes a lot of money out of.
Is this a hard road for him? Yes it is
At the moment its not about money it,s about love

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the problem is with his presentation of the evidence

RoseMontague,

I agree. Mr. Kercher also wrote, "Sollecito’s naked footprint was found on a bathmat in the cottage; and Knox’s footprints were found outside Meredith’s room, in the passageway and in another room, where police believe a break-in was staged." Exactly who made the bathmat footprint is strongly disputed; I don't think it can be ascribed to anyone with anything close to 100% certainty (though I favor the explanation that it is Guede's). Without knowing how large the other flatmates' feet are, how can one say that the prints in the hallway belong to any one person (Amanda)? Mr. Kercher goes on to imply that these prints were made with traces of blood and were left after a cleanup. If so, then where are the streak marks, and why do they even look like footprints? Why only a right foot pointing toward Meredith's room? The prosecution has not put forth a credible scenario showing how such a print would get produced in the murder.

 

[Kaosium]

A father loses his daughter through a vile murder. He has to endure a long legal process before the culprits are found guilty by a unanimous verdict. One cannot imagine the pain he has suffered.

He chooses to believe the evidence that was presented, he chooses to believe the unanimous verdict of the jury. The appeal process only lengthens his pain and results in him being out of pocket, due to the visits to Italy that he has had to make.

In the meantime, a concerted campaign to release these murderers is conducted via the media. One of the killers becomes a media darling, attracting creepy internet fans. Mr. Kercher has to endure fabricated stories that appear to make the murderer the victim of the piece.

In spite of this he has endured a dignified silence, until he feels that the record should be put straight.

For this he is vilified by the likes of Kevin Lowe who accuses him of only being interested in making money out of the case. He spins his take on the case any which way he can, covering the bankruptcy of his theories with smokescreens such as does Solecitto have money or not and making outlandish suggestions about the morality of this poor man. All the time dismissing any opposing views with suggestions that others are less intelligent than himself, so they must be wrong.

I could go on, but really this board has degenerated to such an extent that most reasonable people have left. I shall try to be more disciplined and leave Kevin preaching to the few who choose to return.

Let us try for a more complete picture, you seemed to have skipped over some salient episodes in your account.

A girl is murdered in Perugia, Italy. Less than a week after the murder two college kids are arrested after an interrogation in complicity with a local bar-owner. The father of the murdered girl receives the worst call a man can get under those circumstances, and shortly thereafter makes prejudicial comments detrimental to the accused in the press. At the same time his former colleagues in the British tabloids are conducting an unprecedented international smear of one of the accused, creating with out of context material taken from her facebook page and outright lies, a character who could only have existed in comic books, 'Foxy Knoxy.' There are no complaints about making a 'celebrity' out of Amanda Knox coming from the victim's quarter at this time.

The father of the murdered girl then chooses to pursue a civil action against the defendants concurrent with their ongoing trial, damning them in the eyes of the jurors and giving the prosecution effectively another voice in court, an action seen as aggressive in the Italian system. As in June of 2009 Raffaele's father testifies in court that a legacy of property from Raffaele's mother makes Raffaele 'wealthy,' it seems at least possible that this case was pursued also for purposes other than vengeance or propriety.

On the eve of the appeal he then takes to writing articles for the tabloids, starting with the one most involved in the 'Foxy Knoxy' defamation campaign, which is what made a media 'star' out of one of the accused killers of his daughter initially. Part memorial to his lost daughter, and part polemic against those who think two of the accused not guilty of murdering her, they start coming at almost a monthly basis. One is given the impression he wants people to believe that considering the two 'not guilty' and campaigning on their behalf is personally painful to him, as is the legal process which mandates the two appeals allowed to them.

At the same time it is also revealed that his lawyer in Italy, Francisco Maresca, is working to take money from and imprison the parents of one of the accused on a curious charge related to them repeating what their daughter said on the stand. He is also apparently decrying the fact that he has spent over 40k pounds in travel and other expenses which have not been picked up by the British state, as he perhaps expects they should be.

Thus perhaps some of those 'reasonable' people, who have fled in abject horror from Kevin_Lowe and his arguments--like vampires contemplating sunlight--could solve the latter problem. As one place they congregate they claim 239 people online to celebrate the conviction of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, a collection of 20 Euros from each would would appear to make John Kercher whole again. Indications are, and boasting from said quarters has suggested, John Kercher might well peruse those sites. It would make for fair reimbursement for reinforcing the delusional thinking that hiring a PR firm to deal with press requests makes for creating a 'media campaign,' and that there is any hope whatsoever the preposterous case against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito will eventually be confirmed all the way through to the ECHR.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Hello and welcome, Moije!

Does Curatolo really have much credibility left to challenge? It could be they brought him in so he'd be clean and sober for the proceedings, drilling him on his lines so he doesn't bollocks them up again as embarrassingly as last time. It could be pure coincidence and merely the result of relying on testimony from that strata of society.

Kaosium, say what you wrote above was correct and that was exactly what they are doing - (I'm not saying I agree with this, but who knows), then would that in itself not be very bad news for the lovebirds. I don't see how he could have little credibility and have the above statement be true as one would wipe out the other. If he is being coached, his testimony may be even more credible than the first time around.

 

[zeb]

I have a nasy feeling that ECHR are all ready on the case.
so if you want to see a fast track case this will be it.
the prosecutor went in to court with nothing but came out with 25 and 26 years sentence what for?, simply nothing.
The ECHR do not like nothing cases.
So who wins no one

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium, say what you wrote above was correct and that was exactly what they are doing - (I'm not saying I agree with this, but who knows), then would that in itself not be very bad news for the lovebirds. I don't see how he could have little credibility and have the above statement be true as one would wipe out the other. If he is being coached, his testimony may be even more credible than the first time around.

Oh, he could certainly sound more credible with a little coaching, but that doesn't belie the fact he testified in his third murder trial when he 'broke' Amanda and Raffaele's alibi, the whole time the cops having hard evidence of his dealing heroin. If there was ever someone who fit the definition of 'professional witness' it would be Toto. Having that charge over his head, along with the unlikely occurrence that he 'witnessed' events in murders on almost an annual basis during that time, ought to completely destroy any 'credibility' he might have had left.

I personally don't know if they're coaching him either, I just made a snarky comment about it the other day and wanted to clear that up. As I note, his being arraigned now for that seven year-old charge could be pure coincidence, not related to this case in the slightest.

 

[tronic]

RoseMontague,

I agree. Mr. Kercher also wrote, "Sollecito’s naked footprint was found on a bathmat in the cottage; and Knox’s footprints were found outside Meredith’s room, in the passageway and in another room, where police believe a break-in was staged." Exactly who made the bathmat footprint is strongly disputed; I don't think it can be ascribed to anyone with anything close to 100% certainty (though I favor the explanation that it is Guede's). Without knowing how large the other flatmates' feet are, how can one say that the prints in the hallway belong to any one person (Amanda)? Mr. Kercher goes on to imply that these prints were made with traces of blood and were left after a cleanup. If so, then where are the streak marks, and why do they even look like footprints? Why only a right foot pointing toward Meredith's room? The prosecution has not put forth a credible scenario showing how such a print would get produced in the murder.

What planet are you on? The footprint has been PROVEN to match Sollecitos foot within 1%. It absolutely does not match Guedes. Guedes clad footprints led straight from the murder room out of the door -- which confirms what he said. Footprints of Knox, again confirmed within dimensional measurements with tolerance of 1% were found in two directions in the corridor outside the murder room again -- SET IN BLOOD.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

enquiring minds want to know

What planet are you on? The footprint has been PROVEN to match Sollecitos foot within 1%. It absolutely does not match Guedes. Guedes clad footprints led straight from the murder room out of the door -- which confirms what he said. Footprints of Knox, again confirmed within dimensional measurements with tolerance of 1% were found in two directions in the corridor outside the murder room again -- SET IN BLOOD.

tronic,

What is the track record of the prosecution with respect to footprints and shoeprints? Was the print distinct or fuzzy (because of the material and that it was probably a blood/water mixture)? How do you know that Guede's footprints were not made the second time he was in the bedroom, after the murder and his trip to the bathroom? Set in blood? Which confirmatory test did they use for blood? Why were both the TMB test and the test for Meredith's DNA negative? When was it made? Why is there only a right foot and no left? Without having the reference footprints (whether they were taken or not has been debated here) how can you say who matches and who does not?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

please give examples

He chooses to believe the evidence that was presented, he chooses to believe the unanimous verdict of the jury. The appeal process only lengthens his pain and results in him being out of pocket, due to the visits to Italy that he has had to make.

In the meantime, a concerted campaign to release these murderers is conducted via the media. One of the killers becomes a media darling, attracting creepy internet fans. Mr. Kercher has to endure fabricated stories that appear to make the murderer the victim of the piece.

colonelhall,

He chose to believe the prosecution's evidence, not the defense's evidence. That's his choice, but it is not the only choice open. To describe Ms. Knox as a media darling, after being vilified by the British tabloid press and others, is myopic*. Please give examples of what you mean by creepy internet fans.
*I agree that she appears to generate both favorable and unfavorable feelings in Italy, from what I recall of an article I read some time ago. However, the negative press was more significant in terms of the trial. MOO.