Is the USA's fiat money system bound to collapse?

[dawny22]

Is the USA's fiat money system bound to collapse? If so my country and the rest of the world will follow! I do not know about you, but these are questions I ask and it scares me. The thought first struck me several years ago when I was doing a some research online, and found out the federal reserve was a private company.

So, I began to do some research. Did you know the American government is in trillions of dollars of debt and continues to borrow more money? Did you know it is impossible to get out of debt in a system which borrows money from a private federal reserve with interest attached. Did you know your taxes go directly to the federal reserve bank and not the United states government?

The federal reserve bank has been loaning taxpayers dollars in the trillions to foreign countries for years now. They answer to no one, have never been audited, and control the nations stock markets, industries, media and wealth. They even control the government through rich foreign lobbyist and powerful international banking corporations. The people have been manipulated and lied too! This won't be news to a forum of this magnitude, but the average person on the street has no inclination! All i ask is one thing, watch the two presentations that follow and write a critique of the material therein.

I do sincerely hope i get some good honest feed back from people who have genuinely watched the presentations, and not just knee jerked reactions.

Thanks and kind regards
Dawn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArfPytAoeZ0&feature=player_embedded

Watch the other 4 parts on youtube please.

No sorry i will just paste them, i have noticed an anomaly that might confuse people the other 4 links are here now rectified


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFrpeaaSWjQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-nNpXEg1LY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiMHg5Pe1DQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk_jCp4l5zs&feature=related

Then there is the money masters, really good informative documetry. Please watch and critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs&feature=player_embedded

 

[Jack by the hedge]

OK. I got 3:40 into the video and was told that if a borrower buys a house with a mortgage from a bank, "The bank gets to conjure into existence the amount of the loan and just write it into the borrower's account". Makes it sounds like the bank does nothing and the poor sap just starts paying them. No hint that that the bank has to pay out the loan in the first place.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but if the video's going to be that misleading with the easy stuff, how can I trust it when it gets into unfamiliar territory?

 

[dawny22]

OK. I got 3:40 into the video and was told that if a borrower buys a house with a mortgage from a bank, "The bank gets to conjure into existence the amount of the loan and just write it into the borrower's account". Makes it sounds like the bank does nothing and the poor sap just starts paying them. No hint that that the bank has to pay out the loan in the first place.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but if the video's going to be that misleading with the easy stuff, how can I trust it when it gets into unfamiliar territory?

You are misinformed as most people..........
Because mortgages are promises to pay back a loan, banks often do not have the physical money to make investments. Banks, who have lent mortgages, repackage the mortgages into a CDO that can be sold to investors. This allows banks to increase their physical assets. Please watch both presentations in whole, and then tell me what you think or do a critique.

Thanks kind regards
Dawn

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

 

[Newtons Bit]

You are misinformed as most people..........
Because mortgages are promises to pay back a loan, banks often do not have the physical money to make investments. Banks, who have lent mortgages, repackage the mortgages into a CDO that can be sold to investors. This allows banks to increase their physical assets. Please watch both presentations in whole, and then tell me what you think or do a critique.

Thanks kind regards
Dawn

This is completely untrue.

The bank gives cash to the new owner. The new owner pays the old owner. The bank has to have that cash on hand for this to work. The new owner of the home that has the obligation to pay back the loan. The bank can then sell that obligation and recover the cash they paid out and perhaps a small profit depending on the risk of the asset. Or they can keep it and earn a return on the cash they paid out.

The cash on hand that banks use is typically the cash deposits of the bank members. The members get interest returns in exchange for giving the bank access to their money.

This can, and was, done without a FIAT currency.

 

[Horatius]

The thought first struck me several years ago when I was doing a some research online, and found out the federal reserve was a private company.

So, I began to do some research.

Could you tell us where you did your research?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You are misinformed as most people..........

Uhh. Thanks for the condescention.

Because mortgages are promises to pay back a loan, banks often do not have the physical money to make investments. Banks, who have lent mortgages, repackage the mortgages into a CDO that can be sold to investors. This allows banks to increase their physical assets.

I'm familiar with the idea of banks packaging and selling on their loans. I vaguely recall there was a little bit of fuss over securities some of the banks were selling each other a year or two back.

My point was that the video glosses over the basic fact that the house you are buying was not donated to your bank for free by its previous owner.

 

[dawny22]

PLEASE!! The bank gives cash?? The cash is a simple electronic transfer of numbers! If the loan was deposited into your account you could then draw on it as can a company..... but this money comes out of thin air! Did you watch the presentations or not? New debt was created not money!

I am asking for help here, i wish to be educated by people who know more than me. But with all due respect please watch the presentations. Then have your say, i am going somewhere with this it was not just a broad statement left in limbo!

Thanks people
Dawn

 

[Soapy Sam]

Like all forms of mass delusion, banking "works" (I prefer "functions") so long as everyone shares a belief that it will go on functioning.

Eventually , all such systems come unstuck, but historically, the same gullibility and greed which keeps the plates spinning has always managed to restart them.

The critical question is whether it is easier to fool 7 billion people most of the time than it was to fool six billion.

My own belief is that if banks must pay high salaries to get the best people, then maybe they should try just hiring people who are merely competent, but who show some evidence of integrity.


Off the topic- Dawny, this is a big forum.. If you raise a general issue, you will get many responses in a short time. Go for something specific and you will get fewer replies from those with a specific interest or expertise. You should also allow for time zones. The bulk of posters are Americans and are active in the wee small hours GMT.
Also, JREF holds conventions, called "TAM"s (The Amazing Meeting). So many of the longer term posters know one another in the real world. As a result , a lot of scarcely relevant comment, in-jokes and general nonsense gets tossed around. There is also a shared world view about some things, such as the credibility of most conspiracy theories. That's the nature of the place. This can lead to a cliquey and sometimes hostile feeling for newbies. There's no easy way around that. You just have to wade in and defend your point of view . So long as you follow the user agreement rules, you have as much right to post as the oldest hand. If people think it's wrong, they will let you know. How you handle it from there is your business.

 

[Emet]

A 3 & 1/2 hour film? Don't think I'll be watching.

Here's the Wiki pages to the links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_as_Debt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Money_Masters

 

[dawny22]

Uhh. Thanks for the condescention.


I'm familiar with the idea of banks packaging and selling on their loans. I vaguely recall there was a little bit of fuss over securities some of the banks were selling each other a year or two back.

My point was that the video glosses over the basic fact that the house you are buying was not donated to your bank for free by its previous owner.

Thanks jack, i know you watched the presentations; or i presume you did. You took your time to post back i was counting.

As to your statement the banks already own in part most of all property there is. Once a person has paid the mortgages and goes to resell, the same old ponzi starts all over again.

 

[dawny22]

A 3 & 1/2 hour film? Don't think I'll be watching.

Here's the Wiki pages to the links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_as_Debt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Money_Masters

Thank you for the links, i want to see both sides of the debate........ sorry you won't be watching them though.

Kind regards
Dawn

 

[dawny22]

Like all forms of mass delusion, banking "works" (I prefer "functions") so long as everyone shares a belief that it will go on functioning.

Eventually , all such systems come unstuck, but historically, the same gullibility and greed which keeps the plates spinning has always managed to restart them.

The critical question is whether it is easier to fool 7 billion people most of the time than it was to fool six billion.

My own belief is that if banks must pay high salaries to get the best people, then maybe they should try just hiring people who are merely competent, but who show some evidence of integrity.


Off the topic- Dawny, this is a big forum.. If you raise a general issue, you will get many responses in a short time. Go for something specific and you will get fewer replies from those with a specific interest or expertise. You should also allow for time zones. The bulk of posters are Americans and are active in the wee small hours GMT.
Also, JREF holds conventions, called "TAM"s (The Amazing Meeting). So many of the longer term posters know one another in the real world. As a result , a lot of scarcely relevant comment, in-jokes and general nonsense gets tossed around. There is also a shared world view about some things, such as the credibility of most conspiracy theories. That's the nature of the place. This can lead to a cliquey and sometimes hostile feeling for newbies. There's no easy way around that. You just have to wade in and defend your point of view . So long as you follow the user agreement rules, you have as much right to post as the oldest hand. If people think it's wrong, they will let you know. How you handle it from there is your business.

Thank you for the contribution....... and the advice
Dawn

 

[Dog Town]

As to your statement the banks already own in part most of all property there is. Once a person has paid the mortgages and goes to resell, the same old ponzi starts all over again.

Good god woman! That's not even wrong!
I have bought LOTS of property with CASH! Wake the hell up!

 

[Emet]

Thank you for the links, i want to see both sides of the debate........ sorry you won't be watching them though.

Kind regards
Dawn

You're welcome.

I would like to read what you have to say about the issues in the videos--I don't presume to speak for anyone else but myself, but I'm hard pressed to imagine many here who would watch the long videos and then comment on them.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Thanks jack, i know you watched the presentations; or i presume you did. You took your time to post back i was counting.

You started counting too early. When I said I'd watched to 3:40 that's exactly how much I'd watched. (I later watched the rest of that first 10 minute section.)

As to your statement the banks already own in part most of all property there is. Once a person has paid the mortgages and goes to resell, the same old ponzi starts all over again.

"The banks" may well own most properties, but you can't just conflate "the banks" with whichever individual bank you get your mortgage from. And what makes it a Ponzi scheme exactly? That's just the kind of vague handwaving I was complaining about.

 

[Dog Town]

They answer to no one, have never been audited,

* Buzzzzz*
WRONG AGAIN!
Do you research anything?

 

[dawny22]

Good god woman! That's not even wrong!
I have bought LOTS of property with CASH! Wake the hell up!

Yeh but the banks dont have to.... they can create the cash/debt! I bet you wish you could do that?

 

[Emet]

Yeh but the banks dont have to.... they can create the cash/debt! I bet you wish you could do that?

How do they do that?

 

[Newtons Bit]

PLEASE!! The bank gives cash?? The cash is a simple electronic transfer of numbers! If the loan was deposited into your account you could then draw on it as can a company.....

Yes, I could. If I sell my house, I can take the check given to me and cash it into $20 dollar bills. I could then buy gold with it. Or silver. Or I could stick it in the g-string of a hooker. It's my money.

Once I withdraw it, the bank doesn't have it any more.

but this money comes out of thin air!

No it doesn't. Someone owns that money. Someone deposited that money. It's in someones specific account. If it was deposited in their account through electronic deposits then it was debited from the previous account.