Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kevin_Lowe]

Do you really believe you are qualified to provide an opinion of what Meredith would want?

I think you can either get on your high horse the second something is said which could be twisted into an attack on Meredith Kercher, or you can question whether or not Meredith Kercher would want her housemate and her housemat's boyfriend locked up for years for a crime which (as specified in the comment you are responding to) they had nothing to do with.

I really don't think you can do both, since the second is an incredibly insulting thing to suggest.

Funny how Alt+F4 hasn't jumped on this. According to her, it's her duty to police those who agree with her.

 

[Kaosium]

Any evidence that he is being used? What information are you privy to that he is not? Do you get your information from anywhere else but the Internet?

His articles and utterances on this case indicate he is getting his information from Mignini, Maresca, Massei, Colonel Garofano and Harry Rag. Surrounded by those people, most of whom he likely considers trustworthy authorities, what conclusion would you expect him to come to? The information he is receiving is limited to one line of thought, and it's upfront and personal in some cases. I think that constitutes 'use' in a sense, as they invest him in the outcome of what should be an impartial inquiry.

'I've been through this case backwards and forward from all the sources. I have a very different view of what happened here and what's going to, which I hope I express with every post. The railroad is being investigated for fraud, it's just a matter of what stop they get off now.

Nick Pisa's piece for the Telegraph on last Saturday's proceeding was beautiful and suggests he understands the concept of 'atonement.'

 

[Alt+F4]

His articles and utterances on this case indicate he is getting his information from Mignini, Maresca, Massei, Colonel Garofano and Harry Rag.

Evidence of this? None.

The information he is receiving is limited to one line of thought, and it's upfront and personal in some cases.

Evidence of this? None.

When you actually speak to John Kercher get back to us, otherwise stop making stuff up about someone you don't know, have never met and knows much more about this case than you ever will.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I think you can either get on your high horse the second something is said which could be twisted into an attack on Meredith Kercher, or you can question whether or not Meredith Kercher would want her housemate and her housemat's boyfriend locked up for years for a crime which (as specified in the comment you are responding to) they had nothing to do with.

I really don't think you can do both, since the second is an incredibly insulting thing to suggest.

Funny how Alt+F4 hasn't jumped on this. According to her, it's her duty to police those who agree with her.

Interesting as I have no horse.

I have absolutely no idea what Meredith would or would not want but if I could I would ask her family or friends, seems logical.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

What is that "some evidence"?

Are you playing games deliberately to waste our time and derail the thread?

Here is where you previously asked this question and received the answer with a link. You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this recounting of what transpired in court is not factual.

The fact that you asked for "a link to a reputable news source" (your exact words) leads me to believe that this memory is very clear in your mind in fact.

You are merely demanding more evidence to try to make it appear that the point is contested. It is not. Raffaele is wealthy and the Kercher family and their lawyers are pursuing a civil suit to obtain that wealth for themselves.

I think you might want to step back and reflect here that this sub-discussion has absolutely nothing to do with whether Raffaele is factually guilty or not. Your position on guilt vs innocence should be completely unrelated to your position on wealthy vs poor, if you are rational.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I have absolutely no idea what Meredith would or would not want but if I could I would ask her family or friends, seems logical.

So your point was that for all we know Meredith was deranged and/or evil, and we should ask her family and friends?

 

[Kaosium]

What is "their financial position"? If you don't know then how can you say that Maresca is interfering with it?

My opinion is that that, at this point, there is very little money to go after in Amanda's family. Am I wrong? Are they hiding millions while still staging fundraisers?

That's my point exactly, this is not a time they need any addition strains on their time and income. That is the damage done by that suit, it interferes with what are probably precarious finances.

 

[Alt+F4]

Here is where you previously asked this question and received the answer with a link.

Are you kidding us? What a joke! A blog post with no evidence. Nothing, just something someone said. Reminds me of the poster who complained that Amanda was called a racist based on nothing other than an anyonmous quote.

Raffaele is wealthy and the Kercher family and their lawyers are pursuing a civil suit to obtain that wealth for themselves.

There is no evidence that Raffaele is wealthy. Try again...but I doubt you can come up with anything.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

So your point was that for all we know Meredith was deranged and/or evil, and we should ask her family and friends?

You are a singular wit, but yes I would say her family and friends would be a more reliable source than someone who never knew her.

 

[Alt+F4]

That's my point exactly, this is not a time they need any addition strains on their time and income. That is the damage done by that suit, it interferes with what are probably precarious finances.

What exactly is the financial "damage done by that suit"? It's my understanding that their money problems are due to legal expenses from the original trial and now the appeal. What monies have they spent on the lawsuits?

 

[Kaosium]

Evidence of this? None.

Evidence of this? None.

The 'evidence' would be the pieces themselves. That was the conclusion I drew, what did you think?

When you actually speak to John Kercher get back to us, otherwise stop making stuff up about someone you don't know, have never met and knows much more about this case than you ever will.

I don't think he does, as evidenced by the articles he wrote. He would do better to make it at least look like they aren't influenced by Mignini, Maresca, Garofano, Massei and Harry Rag.

 

[Alt+F4]

The 'evidence' would be the pieces themselves. That was the conclusion I drew, what did you think?

Conclusions you draw are not evidence.

I don't think he does, as evidenced by the articles he wrote. He would do better to make it at least look like they aren't influenced by Mignini, Maresca, Garofano, Massei and Harry Rag.

Again, your opinion, not evidence.

 

[RoseMontague]

Evidence of this? None.



Evidence of this? None.

When you actually speak to John Kercher get back to us, otherwise stop making stuff up about someone you don't know, have never met and knows much more about this case than you ever will.

Again, your opinion, not evidence.

Your opinion was first on who knows more about the case. In my opinion Kaosium knows more about the case.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The Machine

Nope, you're still trying to move the goalpost. When you couldn't find any bashing posts here against Amanda's mother (which was the original point you brought up regarding posts HERE vs. Meredith's father) you changed your argument.

Alt+F4,

False. I first raised Edda Mellas in conjunction with "The Machine's" article at True Justice for Meredith, not anything said here.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I have some questions on the above:

1. Are you stating that only John Kercher’s articles are translated?

Of course not! Your claim was that nothing Kercher writes can have any influence in Italy. I just pointed out your error.

2. How do you know that “there’s no doubt members of the jury also read them?”

By applying my brain which runs on common sense. If you're going in the direction that the jury reads nothing about the case, feel free to support it. I can only say that contrary to mine it's quite a strong and extraordinary claim to make.

3. Do you know whether anything Amanda family state is also translated and have same certainty that jury also read them?

And what do you think?

 

[babycondor]

Amnesty International ruling is not binding.

I pointed out the reports were not up to date and this can be viewed as quibbling but not moving goalposts. I would add that I doubt that any country would overhaul its legal system because of Amnesty International findings, as for ECHR member states are given time to address any serious violations.

The question under considerastion is not whether Italy will overhaul its legal system, or whether Amnesty International's reports are binding. The question is whether the Italian system is in need of reform. At least two well-known, independent and respected organizations seem to agree that it is. Do you disagree with their conclusions? If so, why? If not, what is your point?

 

[Justinian2]

This is a lot like the Roman Inquisitions

Rafaelle and Amanda have front row seats to an Inquisition.

From the Wikipedia article on Inquisition:

They judged heresy alone, using the local authorities to establish a tribunal and to prosecute heretics. After the end of the twelfth century, a Grand Inquisitor headed each Inquisition.
for punishment does not take place primarily and per se for the correction and good of the person punished, but for the public good in order that others may become terrified and weaned away from the evils they would commit.
Legal basis for some inquisitorial activity came from Pope Innocent IV's papal bull Ad exstirpanda of 1252, which authorized and regulated the use of torture in investigating heresy.
The penances and sentences for those who confessed or were found guilty were pronounced together in a public ceremony at the end of all the processes. This was the sermo generalis or auto-da-fé.[21] Penances might consist of a pilgrimage, a public scourging, a fine, or the wearing of a cross. The wearing of two tongues of red or other brightly colored cloth, sewn onto an outer garment in an x pattern, marked those who were under investigation.[citation needed] The penalties in serious cases were confiscation of property or imprisonment. The most severe penalty the inquisitors could themselves impose was life imprisonment.

Is the Inquisition of the Knox and Sollecito families not an inquisition?

Profit was a motive of witch hunts and inquisitions.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Are you kidding us? What a joke! A blog post with no evidence. Nothing, just something someone said.

If you had any evidence whatsoever that what the blog said was said in court, was not actually said in court, we'd have heard about it by now. In theory anyone with access to the court transcripts could check the claim.

I don't even know why you are digging your heels in about this point. Wouldn't Meredith's family be perfectly entitled to damages if Raffaele had the money to pay them? What's the problem?

Reminds me of the poster who complained that Amanda was called a racist based on nothing other than an anyonmous quote.

One is a checkable claim about something said in a public court, which is not in any way inconsistent with anything else we know. The other is an unsubstantiated claim made by an anonymous speaker which is inconsistent with every single pre-prosecution piece of evidence regarding Amanda Knox's character we have seen so far. Rational people treat different things differently.

There is no evidence that Raffaele is wealthy. Try again...but I doubt you can come up with anything.

We get it, you don't want it to be true. However please stop this pretence that you have not been shown the relevant evidence already. Twice.

Meredith Kercher's father stands to get rich off the civil suit if Raffaele's conviction is upheld. Shouldn't you want that to be true? Wouldn't that be a less worse ending to the story, from the committed guilter perspective, if the Kerchers got their hands on Raffaele's inheritance? Why do you hate Meredith's family?

Did you really think that anyone would pursue a civil suit for millions against three penniless criminals? Why would anyone do that? It doesn't make any sense to me, but maybe you can explain it to me. It makes sense to me if one of the targets has money though.

 

[Malkmus]

Are you kidding us? What a joke! A blog post with no evidence. Nothing, just something someone said. Reminds me of the poster who complained that Amanda was called a racist based on nothing other than an anyonmous quote.



There is no evidence that Raffaele is wealthy. Try again...but I doubt you can come up with anything.

Alt, you were given an answer to this months ago with a quote cited by Fine from an Italian newspaper. Your reasoning at that time was you don't believe anything Mr. Sollecito says. The truth is you've been given evidence, but are stubbornly refusing to accept it.

Here is that conversation so at least everyone else can see the evidence you're ignoring:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6815638#post6815638

 

[moije2]

Kercher attorney - source of fees

Hi all,

I have seen mentioned twice now - once on I believe PMF and once here - that Kerchers' attorney Maresco (sp?) was being compensated by the state/Italy. Is there any truth to this? Is it verifiable? The answer does seem relevant to the current discussion.

Thanks