Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kaosium]

I think John Kercher is another victim of the prosecution. He hints in his article how he has been played:

In court our lawyer demanded €21m (£18m) in compensation from the defendants, but this was a purely symbolic amount, seen in Italy as a way of demonstrating the severity of the case.​

It's apparent that someone suggested and convinced the Kerchers that they must sue right now, before guilt is established , because it is customary in Italy, and if they don't then who knows, maybe even the defendants will walk free, because the severity of the cause was not demonstrated.

What was the sorry outcome of all this:

We have had to fund everything ourselves. It adds up — about £40,000 so far.​

He has no choice but go deeper into it now. From the list of lies he posted that stinks of Harry Rag it's possible that he's fallen pray and is being played by the most nutjob of the guilters, too.
However this one's source is quite clear - pure Mignini:

There are many more factors, almost 20 in all, among them the suspicion that there may have been something ritualistic about Meredith’s death. The prosecutor was criticised for mentioning this, but she was killed on the eve of the Day of the Dead, November 2. Sollecito was said to have Japanese manga comics that described the rape and killing of female vampires. Meredith had been dressed as a vampire to celebrate Hallowe’en.​

Concluding - I think it's ill advice of dishonest people that contributed to Kerchers suffering and financial loss. It's clear they are being held hostage by those advisors, being persuaded that backing off now would undermine the perceived severity of the cause and maybe even set free the killers.
Blaming Kerchers make no sense because they are kept with a distorted view of the situation.

I agree with you, he is being used and has been from the beginning. I think this demonstrates the danger inherent in involving the victim's family in the proceedings, especially in a system so prone to miscarriages of justice. It's another one of those things about the Italian system that sounds good until the results can be seen in a case like this. It has made yet another victim, this time perversely that of the victim's father who has become a victimizer trying to do to two other families what has been done to his, and then ruin them as well with jail and judgments against them.

 

[Justinian2]

I agree that you aren't responsible for what others post. But when the pro-innocence posters ignore what he posts, it says a lot. Before someone asks, "what does it say?", it says that as long as someone is pro-innocence it doesn't matter if their posts are factually wrong, incoherent, or insulting to the Kerchers.

When someone posts that: I feel compelled to reply. I'm probably just feeding a troll.

I do when I have the time to read this thread. I doubt there will be much new information until the next hearing.

Show me a recent quote where I insulted the Kerchers and we'll discuss it.

One thing at a time.

 

[Kaosium]

Judging by some of the comments that have been made, I guess people feel that John Kercher has not been following the case and has taken no interest. As a result he needs to rely on others to make up his mind for him. Three articles in three years. Doesn't seem much to me. In fact I am amazed at how reserved he has been all this time.

The Knox family on the other hand. Now let's see..... Has anybody counted the number of weeks that haven't seen them appear on the television?

Can you name another relation to a murder victim who penned three opinion pieces in three months in daily papers, which just happened to coincide with an appeal? This after pursuing a civil judgment concurrently against the accused? One whose lawyer in Italy is working to take money from the parents of one accused and put them in jail as well for daring to defend their child?

Let this be the end of the absurd talking point about 'dignified and reserved.' This is starting to smack more of seething with misplaced vengeance.

 

[Alt+F4]

Show me a recent quote where I insulted the Kerchers and we'll discuss it.

This has little to do with Meredith.

But then I'm sure you don't consider this insulting at all.

 

[Alt+F4]

I agree with you, he is being used and has been from the beginning.

Any evidence that he is being used? What information are you privy to that he is not? Do you get your information from anywhere else but the Internet?

 

[Alt+F4]

Maresca is the lawyer against them in their 'slander' trial. I'm sure he's delighted to interfere with their financial position whilst they try to afford such an expensive legal defense.

What is "their financial position"? If you don't know then how can you say that Maresca is interfering with it?

My opinion is that that, at this point, there is very little money to go after in Amanda's family. Am I wrong? Are they hiding millions while still staging fundraisers?

 

[Alt+F4]

What do you call the multimillion-dollar civil suit in progress? A purely symbolic gesture? That really would be naive.

Please provide evidence that anyone in this case has multiple millions. Thanks in advance. As far as the evidence has presented itself, everyone who could possible be sued is by conventional standards "middle class", and in my opinion, by the time this is all over, will be close to broke.

 

[Alt+F4]

Stefanoni has a degree in Biological Science from University of Naples.

So why is she called "Dr." Are the standards for this title different in Italy?

 

[Katody Matrass]

Because I do not believe public opinion especially public opinion in the English speaking world will have any impact on the outcome of the appeal, once again another example of a different perspective. You clearly attach significance “Yet John Kercher still commented in a high profile, high prestige newspaper.”

Kercher's articles are translated and quoted in Italian press. There's no doubt members of the jury also read them.

 

[Katody Matrass]

So why is she called "Dr." Are the standards for this title different in Italy?

Oh dear... Doctor of Philosophy (Wikipedia)

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Kaosium:

That's not how I meant it. I was thinking more people should have remembered that no one is guilty until all the way through the Italian system. It would have also have been useful if some had realized the Italian system is prone to errors of this nature, as its record elsewhere would indicate.

Yea I have seen this comment about, I think 1/3rd of convictions overturned but I have not been able to find any stats that state how many capital crimes or murders are overturned on appeal that would be more relevant.

At the end of their trial they were convicted and sentenced pending their automatic appeals.

I don't think Meredith would want Amanda and her new boyfriend put in jail for the majority of their useful life for something they didn't do. Nor do I think she'd want Amanda and Raffaele's parents charged as well.

Do you really believe you are qualified to provide an opinion of what Meredith would want?

I can understand John Kercher's rage, however that does not forgive his aggressive actions taken in this case against Amanda Knox and her parents. It is like he is saying he[/b/] is satisfied about the verdict, thus everyone else should shut up and she doesn't deserve an appeal. That is an indefensible moral position and just causes some to look askance at him for making a public display of himself presenting it.

That is strange because that is exactly the impression I have gotten from some of the comments raging at John Kercher’s article.

In Italy taking the 'civil part' concurrently is considered an aggressive action. He could have waited until they were proven guilty by the Italian Courts, but he didn't even wait that long. He damned the accused in the eyes of the jury and gave the prosecution another voice in court. He'll never see a dime out of any of it, but it has done damage already and continues to do so with every utterance of Maresca and every further person charged in perpetuation of this injustice.

You appear to assuming that the Kercher’s had an understanding of Italian jurisprudence, were as I assume they had UK counsellor support and merely followed their counsel’s advice, if I were in their position I would have done exactly the same.

 

[Kestrel]

Oh dear... Doctor of Philosophy (Wikipedia)

A PHD has to be earned just like an MD.

 

[Alt+F4]

Oh dear... Doctor of Philosophy (Wikipedia)

First Kestrel asks, "still wonder where Dr. Stefanoni got the degree that permits her to use "Dr." in front of her name."

Then states, "Stefanoni has a degree in Biological Science from University of Naples."

So Katody, are you saying that she has a PhD?

Oh dear, do you know the difference?

 

[Alt+F4]

A PHD has to be earned just like an MD.

Not in the U.S. Is it different in Italy?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Katody Matrass

Kercher's articles are translated and quoted in Italian press. There's no doubt members of the jury also read them.

I have some questions on the above:

1. Are you stating that only John Kercher’s articles are translated?
2. How do you know that “there’s no doubt members of the jury also read them?”
3. Do you know whether anything Amanda family state is also translated and have same certainty that jury also read them?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Please provide evidence that anyone in this case has multiple millions. Thanks in advance.

This game-playing is tiresome. You are well aware that there is some evidence Raffaele is heir to significant wealth, and we are all well aware you have absolutely no evidence otherwise. Pretending otherwise is pointless.

As far as the evidence has presented itself, everyone who could possible be sued is by conventional standards "middle class"

You know this is not true.

, and in my opinion, by the time this is all over, will be close to broke.

As we say around here you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

 

[Alt+F4]

Alt+F4,

You were the one that tried to limit the discussion to what was said this thread only. I brought up the subject of attacks in a much broader context, and I reject your attempt to change the subject. Attempt noted.

Nope, you're still trying to move the goalpost. When you couldn't find any bashing posts here against Amanda's mother (which was the original point you brought up regarding posts HERE vs. Meredith's father) you changed your argument.

 

[Justinian2]

I agree that you aren't responsible for what others post. But when the pro-innocence posters ignore what he posts, it says a lot. Before someone asks, "what does it say?", it says that as long as someone is pro-innocence it doesn't matter if their posts are factually wrong, incoherent.
.

Here's the previously posted correction and apology for getting a fact wrong:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6972966#post6972966

What do you want to discuss now?

 

[Alt+F4]

You are well aware that there is some evidence Raffaele is heir to significant wealth...

What is that "some evidence"? I'm not asking for a link to a deed or his deceased mother's will, but how about a link to a reputable news source? Where did you get this information from?

As we say around here you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Indeed, where are the "facts" that RS is heir to significant wealth?

 

[Alt+F4]

double post