Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris_Halkides]

not tit for tat

Halides1



Like you I can only be responsible for what I write, I cannot and do not take responsibility for what others may write. I am tired of this “well they said that, so I am going to say this” justification.



That is one view, another would be to leave the man to grieve in his own way, he cannot influence the outcome of the appeal anymore than any us can.

How is he any different than the Mother of Federico Aldrovandi in his grief?

Why is it that people would point to one grieving parent and show understanding then criticise another for doing the same thing.

CoulsdonUK,

I am specifically saying that one should not treat Mr. Kercher as Ms. Mellas has been treated. The Aldrovandi case is different from this one. No one is suing Mr. Kercher for slander. Further, the penalties actually handed out in the Aldrovandi case were very light, between three and four years. From Beppe Grillo's blog, "who with the benefit of 3 years due to the Great Pardon, will not spend even a minute in prison. In fact, the officers have not even been dismissed as they are still in service."

 

[Alt+F4]

Long before the conclusion of the first trial, he and his family made it clear that they believed that Knox and Sollecito were guilty.

Yes, and long before the conclusion of the first trial, the Knox and Sollecitio families made it clear that they believed Amanda and Raffaele were not guilty.

 

[Alt+F4]

I am specifically saying that one should not treat Mr. Kercher as Ms. Mellas has been treated.

I've not read one single posts in any of the Amanda Knox threads here at the JREF that bashed Ms. Mellas. Not true for what has been said about Mr. Kercher and Meredith in the past few pages of this thread. Should I quote them for everyone's memory?

 

[Alt+F4]

He's different because if anyone questions his point of view, people like "colonelhall" get their knickers in such a twistie that they end up wrapped around their necks.

Read the last couple of pages in this thread. The posts in question weren't about John Kercher "point of view".

 

[Chris_Halkides]

parent bashing

I've not read one single posts in any of the Amanda Knox threads here at the JREF that bashed Ms. Mellas. Not true for what has been said about Mr. Kercher and Meredith in the past few pages of this thread. Should I quote them for everyone's memory?

Alt+F4,

If you go back to the first thread, you will find comments that bashed Curt Knox and Chris Mellas, questioning their veracity. I am not certain about Edda Mellas, but in any case, I was speaking more generally than this thread.

 

[lionking]

It takes a certain intellectual courage to stand up for Amanda and Raffaele.

It takes courage to post anonymously on an Internet forum? I needed a laugh today.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Halides1

He is doing something other than simply speaking up for his child. Long before the conclusion of the first trial, he and his family made it clear that they believed that Knox and Sollecito were guilty.

I don’t recall John Kercher expressing views prior to the end of the trial even if he did I do not see any difference between John Kercher and Amanda’s father and step-father speaking on behalf of their daughters.

I am specifically saying that one should not treat Mr. Kercher as Ms. Mellas has been treated. The Aldrovandi case is different from this one. No one is suing Mr. Kercher for slander.

So from your perspective it isn’t about the grief of a parent, more whether one is being sued?

Further, the penalties actually handed out in the Aldrovandi case were very light, between three and four years. From Beppe Grillo's blog, "who with the benefit of 3 years due to the Great Pardon, will not spend even a minute in prison. In fact, the officers have not even been dismissed as they are still in service."

Not sure of the relevance of the above.

I genuinely do not understand why you are effectively applying one rule to Amanda’s father and step-father and another for John Kercher, but that of course is your choice.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

not an either-or question

Yes, and long before the conclusion of the first trial, the Knox and Sollecitio families made it clear that they believed Amanda and Raffaele were not guilty.

Alt+F4,

Do you believe that Mr. Kercher's characterization of Dr. Stefanoni as an "internationally respected forensic's expert" is valid? Mr. Kercher wrote, "Knox described the position of Meredith’s body." Do you believe that she described the position of the body correctly? If Mr. Kercher wants to comment publicly, that is his right. However, no one here should confuse challenging the accuracy or interpretation of things he said with failing to sympathize with him and his family. Doing one does not preclude doing the other.

 

[Justinian2]

Judging by some of the comments that have been made, I guess people feel that John Kercher has not been following the case and has taken no interest. As a result he needs to rely on others to make up his mind for him. Three articles in three years. Doesn't seem much to me. In fact I am amazed at how reserved he has been all this time.

The Knox family on the other hand. Now let's see..... Has anybody counted the number of weeks that haven't seen them appear on the television?

The whole Knox family should have kept quiet. As anecdotal experience, when my son got in a little trouble, the lawyer told me to stay out of it and not talk to the press. Seems like vexatious prosecution is the result of expressing our freedom of speech. The only exception is a video tape. It the police are video taped, then they are in trouble. Otherwise, parents and press are told to keep quiet. Freedom of speech is frequently a myth. At the very least, it co$t$ dearly. Freedom of speech may have cost the Knox family dearly.

Hindsight is 20-20, but the whole Knox family should have used their right to remain silent. Funny thing is, I told one person to shut up and don't say anything until I got a lawyer there. By the time the lawyer got there, the trial was over and she was in jail without ever saying anything. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In hindsight, every Knox should have kept quiet, gotten lawyered up and left Italy.

Jews should have had the same advice during WWII. Sometimes advice is easier said than done.

I’m just discussing whether or not the Knox family talked too much and not attempting to prove anything. Don’t derail the tread by discussing my anecdotes.

 

[snook1]

Do you agree with his statement that Italy in 2011 is, "the new Soviet Union"?

Apparently Frank is living in Italy, he's seen stuff, he knows what's goin on, he's there. He knows Mignini, he knows the police, he knows how the case was handled, he knows how the system is working. I believe he has every right to call Italy whatever he wants. And let's face it, it's not like Perugian authorities did a good job with this case.

 

[Alt+F4]

Alt+F4,

Do you believe that Mr. Kercher's characterization of Dr. Stefanoni as an "internationally respected forensic's expert" is valid? Mr. Kercher wrote, "Knox described the position of Meredith’s body." Do you believe that she described the position of the body correctly? If Mr. Kercher wants to comment publicly, that is his right. However, no one here should confuse challenging the accuracy or interpretation of things he said with failing to sympathize with him and his family. Doing one does not preclude doing the other.

His opinions regarding the evidence was not what he was criticized for in the last few pages of this thread. In fact, you're the first to actually mention his opinions in regard to that article. Other posters didn't address what he wrote, they just trashed him.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

one rule to bind us all

Halides1
I don’t recall John Kercher expressing views prior to the end of the trial even if he did I do not see any difference between John Kercher and Amanda’s father and step-father speaking on behalf of their daughters.

I genuinely do not understand why you are effectively applying one rule to Amanda’s father and step-father and another for John Kercher, but that of course is your choice.

CoulsdonUK,

The Kercher's hired Mr. Maresca, and the civil case ran concurrently with the criminal one. They would not have done so, if they were not convinced of guilt. The family was not well served by his pit-bull courtroom style, as I have discussed a long time ago. I am not applying two rules; I am applying one: If any parent speaks falsely or misleadingly in public, he or she should be corrected in as mild a way as possible, and in a way that does not demean his or her intelligence and does not imply that he or she is lying. However, no parent should expect that his or her errors or debatable claims will go without civil challenge. Fair enough?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Snook1

Apparently Frank is living in Italy, he's seen stuff, he knows what's goin on, he's there. He knows Mignini, he knows the police, he knows how the case was handled, he knows how the system is working. I believe he has every right to call Italy whatever he wants. And let's face it, it's not like Perugian authorities did a good job with this case.

Interesting, so if an Italian living in America made the same observation about America that would be equally as accurate?

 

[Alt+F4]

If you go back to the first thread, you will find comments that bashed Curt Knox and Chris Mellas, questioning their veracity. I am not certain about Edda Mellas, but in any case, I was speaking more generally than this thread.

Now you're moving the goalpost. I said that Ms. Mellas had not been trashed in any of these threads and Mr. Kercher has been, particularly in the past few pages.

It was you who mentioned Ms. Mellas specifically, and now when you can't find any JREFers who have trashed her, you bring in the father and step-father.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

international reputation

His opinions regarding the evidence was not what he was criticized for in the last few pages of this thread. In fact, you're the first to actually mention his opinions in regard to that article. Other posters didn't address what he wrote, they just trashed him.

Alt+F4,

Actually I first raised his opinion of Dr. Stefanoni's reputation in message 4947. I do not see any evidence to back up his claim.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Frank Sfarzo

Interesting, so if an Italian living in America made the same observation about America that would be equally as accurate?

CoulsdonUK.

Frank Sfarzo (not his real name) is Italian, and English is not his first language.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

CoulsdonUK,

The Kercher's hired Mr. Maresca, and the civil case ran concurrently with the criminal one. They would not have done so, if they were not convinced of guilt. The family was not well served by his pit-bull courtroom style, as I have discussed a long time ago. I am not applying two rules; I am applying one: If any parent speaks falsely or misleadingly in public, he or she should be corrected in as mild a way as possible, and in a way that does not demean his or her intelligence and does not imply that he or she is lying. However, no parent should expect that his or her errors or debatable claims will go without civil challenge. Fair enough?

You and others agree with Amanda’s parents so you see nothing wrong in their public statements, whilst you disagree with John Kercher views. Sadly it is not about fairness it is in my opinion about perspective; one country’s freedom fighter is another country’s terrorist.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

CoulsdonUK.

Frank Sfarzo (not his real name) is Italian, and English is not his first language.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Alt+F4]

Apparently Frank is living in Italy, he's seen stuff, he knows what's goin on, he's there. He knows Mignini, he knows the police, he knows how the case was handled, he knows how the system is working. I believe he has every right to call Italy whatever he wants. And let's face it, it's not like Perugian authorities did a good job with this case.

How much do you know about what life was like in the Soviet Union? Did criminal defendents get automatic appeals? Gosh, how many even got lawyers? Does Italy in 2011 have forced labor concentration camps similiar to the gulags? Do you know how many millions were butchered by the Soviet government?

Unbelievable.

 

[Kestrel]

Alt+F4,

Actually I first raised his opinion of Dr. Stefanoni's reputation in message 4947. I do not see any evidence to back up his claim.

I still wonder where Dr. Stefanoni got the degree that permits her to use "Dr." in front of her name.