General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Thunder]

Oh dear, anyone who wants to use legality as a criteria will have to abandon the claim that Operation Cast lead was illegal, because by claiming Gaza is occupied they forfeit any right to arguing that Cast lead was illegal, because it is by their own definition definition legal if occupied.

we're not talking about Cast Lead.

 

[mortimer]

intentionally or unintentionally, you misunderstood his point and continue to misrepresent it.

Are you sure? Have you asked The Fool for clarification? Can you read minds? His post is there for all to see, and my responses have been based solely on what he posted.

perhaps you should ask him for clarification.

I asked him for clarification yesterday, and he is free to clarify. That you seem to already know what he means past what he has written may indeed qualify you for the MDC. Have you thought of applying for it?

 

[Thunder]

Have you asked The Fool for clarification? Can you read minds? His post is there for all to see, and my responses have been based solely on what he posted.

That you seem to already know what he means past what he has written may indeed qualify you for the MDC. Have you thought of applying for it?

the meaning and logic of his post is as clear as day.

I am baffled as to how anyone could honestly misunderstand it.

 

[Thunder]

what stops Israel from walking into gaza today? maybe stay around for a few hours and leave? answer is ....nothing. They could do it today, tomorrow...anytime. You would still be happy to say not occupied. Overflying?....no problems. Wildcat says even if Israel was to enter parts of Gaza to seal off the border with Egypt it would still be not occupied.

You may have expected that Israels moving of troops to the borders would have convinced the world that they are not in control of what happens to Gaza.....well, it certainly was enough for those that habitually stand to attention and salute Israeli actions to stand to attention and salute.

Now please explain to everyone how you standing to attention, saluting and chanting the "no boots" chant makes any difference to the occupation status of Gaza?

re-quoted for clarity

 

[MarkCorrigan]

not legally, no. it would violate international law and the internationally recognized sovereignty of these nations.

do you understand that? please tell me you do.

Actually, depending upon how you define it, your country regularly flies over the UK and has troops stationed here pretty much at all times.

You don't have ships in our waters as far as I know, but I can't imagine it would be hard to.

 

[Thunder]

Actually, depending upon how you define it, your country regularly flies over the UK and has troops stationed here pretty much at all times.

I have NO doubt, NONE whatsoever, that military fly-over rights have been negotiated between the USA and the UK.

no, we do not fly into other nations' airspace without permission.

and I have NO doubt that we have troops in Britain, with the permission of Her Magesty.

ask us to leave tomorrow, and we iz gone.

 

[The Fool]

Actually, depending upon how you define it, your country regularly flies over the UK and has troops stationed here pretty much at all times.

You don't have ships in our waters as far as I know, but I can't imagine it would be hard to.

I'm taking a big gamble here and assuming that any US military assets within UK territory have UK permission to be there.....but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[The Fool]

Are you sure? Have you asked The Fool for clarification? Can you read minds? His post is there for all to see, and my responses have been based solely on what he posted.

I put it to you that your responses have been a long way from anything I have posted.

what on earth do you want clarified now?? Its pretty straightforward.

Israel has effective control of Gaza.....I have laboriously explained why. I am amazed you can't follow the bouncing ball.

 

[Thunder]

I'm taking a big gamble here and assuming that any US military assets within UK territory have UK permission to be there.....but maybe I'm wrong.

what on earth do you want clarified now?? Its pretty straightforward.

Israel has effective control of Gaza.....I have laboriously explained why. I am amazed you can't follow the bouncing ball.

dude...what do you think?

are these guys honestly confused and misunderstanding what you are trying to say...or is this just trolling?

I think its willful ignorance, trolling, and maybe a bit of lack of knowledge.

whatever it is....it sure ain't good debating.

 

[mortimer]

I put it to you that your responses have been a long way from anything I have posted.

what on earth do you want clarified now?? Its pretty straightforward.

Israel has effective control of Gaza.....I have laboriously explained why. I am amazed you can't follow the bouncing ball.

Laboriously? You said that Israeli troops could enter Gaza at any time and hang for a few hours, and that Israel could fly over Gaza.

Laboriously?

How does this differ from the ability of the U.S. to do the same to Cuba, or any number of other countries?

Please feel free to labor a bit harder.

 

[mortimer]

dude...what do you think?

are these guys honestly confused and misunderstanding what you are trying to say...or is this just trolling?

I think its willful ignorance, trolling, and maybe a bit of lack of knowledge.

whatever it is....it sure ain't good debating.

Feel free to correct The Fool's definition of "occupation", which has been posted and quoted in its entirely for all to see, any time you want. Or would you rather just call people names?

 

[Thunder]

You said that Israeli troops could enter Gaza at any time and hang for a few hours, and that Israel could fly over Gaza.
How does this differ from the ability of the U.S. to do the same to Cuba, or any number of other countries?

the difference is......is that Israel can do it LEGALLY!!

but it would be ILLEGAL for the US military to fly over Cuba.

this is what The Fool is talking about. Oy vey with extra chopped liver!!!

do you understand now?

Dog help me.

 

[The Fool]

Laboriously? You said that Israeli troops could enter Gaza at any time and hang for a few hours, and that Israel could fly over Gaza.

Laboriously?

How does this differ from the ability of the U.S. to do the same to Cuba, or any number of other countries?

Please feel free to labor a bit harder.

ok.....

US overflying CUBA without cubas permission......act of war...because US does not control cuba.


Israel overflying Gaza without Hamas permission......not an act of war.... because Israel controls gaza.

understand so far?

 

[Thunder]

Feel free to correct The Fool's definition of "occupation", which has been posted and quoted in its entirely for all to see, any time you want.

there is nothing to correct. his definition of occupation is clear as day, for all who are willing to see.

Or would you rather just call people names?

for the record, I have called no one any names, in this thread.

someday, you will learn the difference between attacking someone's BEHAVIOR, and attacking them PERSONALLY.

...or maybe you won't.

 

[mortimer]

the difference is......is that Israel can do it LEGALLY!!

but it would be ILLEGAL for the US military to fly over Cuba.

this is what The Fool is talking about. Oy vey with extra chopped liver!!!

do you understand now?

Dog help me.

Is that what The Fool said? Because he certainly didn't even mention legality in his posts. Are you reading his mind? Perhaps you should apply for the MDC.

 

[Thunder]

ok.....

US overflying CUBA without cubas permission......act of war...because US does not control cuba.

Israel overflying Gaza without Hamas permission......not an act of war.... because Israel controls gaza.

understand so far?

no, I don't think he does.

he is confusing the ability to fly over a country, land troops in a country, patrol the waters of a country, with the LEGAL RIGHT to do so...based on an agreement between the two states or sovereignty over that territory.

why does he keep doing this? Dog only knows.

 

[Thunder]

Have you asked The Fool for clarification? Can you read minds? That you seem to already know what he means past what he has written may indeed qualify you for the MDC.

Is that what The Fool said? Because he certainly didn't even mention legality in his posts. Are you reading his mind? Perhaps you should apply for the MDC.

huh

 

[mortimer]

ok.....

US overflying CUBA without cubas permission......act of war...because US does not control cuba.


Israel overflying Gaza without Hamas permission......not an act of war.... because Israel controls gaza.

understand so far?

Thank you for clarifying. So a country's occupation of a territory is fully dependent on a third party declaring it so? In other words, Israel can not "unoccupy" Gaza until the UN says so, correct?

 

[mortimer]

huh

Sorry. The MDC refer's to Randi's "Million Dollar Challenge". It's kind of a big deal around these parts, and I apologize for not spelling it out for you.

 

[Thunder]

Thank you for clarifying. So a country's occupation of a territory is fully dependent on a third party declaring it so? In other words, Israel can not "unoccupy" Gaza until the UN say so, correct?

we are a world of laws. and international institutions that create, interpret, and impose these laws. we are this way because without such institutions, the world is much more chaotic.

in our world, if the United Nations, and European Union, and the United States, ALL say that a nation's status as being the legal Occupier of a territory has not ended due to reason X, Y, and Z..its only prudent that we respect such rulings and official positions. if we don't, then we're back in 1914.

would you prefer it any other way?