Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Alt+F4]

Frank mentioned Federico Aldrovandi. That case alone would be enough to make me ask for reforms.

I think every judicial system needs some reforms, some more than others. But to call Italy "the new Soviet Union", is ridiculous and insulting to those who were the victims of the Soviet government, a government that butchered tens of millions.

What's Frank gonna say next, that Mignini is the next Stalin?

 

[Alt+F4]

24 hour access to the UK Times is available for 1 UK pound, BTW.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Justinian2]

Extract from John Kercher article:

Amanda and Meredith were roommates for a week. That is the extent of their association.

Pro innocent people see this as a battle between truth and the Italian judicial system/government. That's all. This has little to do with Meredith. Amanda has been in jail for almost 200 weeks. Amanda knew Meredith a week and may not have spent much time with her.

Truth and justice are the focus, not Meredith (who is not more important than any of the soldiers that died fighting for us).

The Knox family, however, is fighting for world justice.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

shouting at the ocean with pebbles in my mouth

BTW do you have the link for your blog?

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/

For the last year it has been almost entirely devoted to this case. You will have to go back to 2008-2009 for a couple of pieces on detainee policy.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Justinian2:

Amanda and Meredith were roommates for a week. That is the extent of their association.

Pro innocent people see this as a battle between truth and the Italian judicial system/government. That's all. This has little to do with Meredith. Amanda has been in jail for almost 200 weeks. Amanda knew Meredith a week and may not have spent much time with her.

Truth and justice are the focus, not Meredith (who is not more important than any of the soldiers that died fighting for us).

The Knox family, however, is fighting for world justice.

I would argue Meredith’s family have every right to know why their daughter was brutally murdered, three people were arrested one has had his involvement confirmed by the Italian Supreme court whilst the others are going through their appeal.

It is not necessary for us to agree, I accept yours and others right to support Amanda and I assume Raffaele, by the same token I will continue to do the same from my own perspective.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/

For the last year it has been almost entirely devoted to this case. You will have to go back to 2008-2009 for a couple of pieces on detainee policy.

Thank you for the link, I'll have a look.

 

[zeb]

Coulsdon UK.
sorry I do not read the times any more, due to the fact that the owner is one right, opps sorry a very far right wing owner.
And I will not pay one pound to read a lot of rubbish.
Yes I said rubbish.
O by the way hows the NOTW mobile phone taps going, or do I need to pay one pound to find out.

 

[Alt+F4]

Amanda and Meredith were roommates for a week.

Wrong. You really should familiairze yourself with the very basics of the case if you wish anyone to take you seriously.

Pro innocent people see this as a battle between truth and the Italian judicial system/government. That's all. This has little to do with Meredith.

Thanks for confirming again that Meredith doesn't matter.

Truth and justice are the focus, not Meredith

Meredith, just another dead body, got it.

The Knox family, however, is fighting for world justice.

No they are not.

P.S. - Hey other pro-innocence folks....this guy makes you look really bad.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Wrong. You really should familiairze yourself with the very basics of the case if you wish anyone to take you seriously.



Thanks for confirming again that Meredith doesn't matter.



Meredith, just another dead body, got it.



No they are not.

P.S. - Hey other pro-innocence folks....this guy makes you look really bad.

Excellent rebuttal; according to some people world justice doesn’t seem to apply to the person who was murdered or their family!

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Halides1

Maybe you could clarify something for me. I believe red blood cells are not a very good source for DNA, whilst white blood cells are usually used for DNA analysis but are more fragile than red blood cells? If so why is it so surprising that DNA is not being found in foot prints or other items.

 

[babycondor]

Extract from John Kercher article:

I respect the wishes of the Kercher family to remember their daughter in whatever way they wish. Their outrage at the Lifetime movie depiction is entirely justified, in my opinion.

Yet, however touching Mr Kercher's memories of his daughter are, the truth is that her tragic murder and the events that followed it are far more memorable to most people. The manner and aftermath of her death is quite likely the only reason she is known outside a small circle of friends and family.

The reality is that, in the wake of Meredith's murder, two other young people and their families have been through a prolonged nightmare that continues to this day. Nothing will bring Meredith back, but it is still possible that justice can be done on behalf of the still-living innocent victims of Guede's violent rampage.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

P.S. - Hey other pro-innocence folks....this guy makes you look really bad.

No he doesn't. I don't take responsibility, or for that matter take credit, for anything anyone else posts.

If you believe (quite defensibly) that Justinian2 does not put the best possible case for innocence, why engage with him? Why not engage with the points made by better-informed posters who focus on the more important points?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the Red and the White

Halides1

Maybe you could clarify something for me. I believe red blood cells are not a very good source for DNA, whilst white blood cells are usually used for DNA analysis but are more fragile than red blood cells? If so why is it so surprising that DNA is not being found in foot prints or other items.

CoulsdonUK,

Red blood cells do not contain DNA, but white cells do. However, I have personal experience lysing blood cells with simple deionized water. The cells break open due to osmotic shock. The release of hemoglobin from the red blood cells is obvious upon centrifugation. I have heard at least one pro-guilt commenter (Machiavelli) claim that white blood cells are more fragile, but I do not know of any evidence to back this claim up. Nevertheless, I will ask some of my colleagues and see what they say.

Let us speculate for a moment. Suppose that white blood cells were more fragile in the sense of being broken more easily. This might give extracelluar nuclease enzymes greater opportunity to degrade the DNA, than they would otherwise have. However, the nucleases would still have to deal with the fact that the DNA is tightly packed with histone proteins which might afford some protection against nucleases. One would have to address this problem empirically.

 

[lionking]

The Knox family, however, is fighting for world justice.

Of all the ridiculous hyperbole I've read here, this just takes the cake.

 

[Alt+F4]

No he doesn't. I don't take responsibility, or for that matter take credit, for anything anyone else posts.

I agree that you aren't responsible for what others post. But when the pro-innocence posters ignore what he posts, it says a lot. Before someone asks, "what does it say?", it says that as long as someone is pro-innocence it doesn't matter if their posts are factually wrong, incoherent, or insulting to the Kerchers.

If you believe (quite defensibly) that Justinian2 does not put the best possible case for innocence, why engage with him?

When someone posts that:

This has little to do with Meredith

I feel compelled to reply. I'm probably just feeding a troll.

Why not engage with the points made by better-informed posters who focus on the more important points?

I do when I have the time to read this thread. I doubt there will be much new information until the next hearing.

 

[Alt+F4]

I would like to say - kudos to Frank. He's my on line hero and he's doing amazing job.

Do you agree with his statement that Italy in 2011 is, "the new Soviet Union"?

 

[Kaosium]

Have you read Frank's latest blog post? He calls Italy "the new Soviet Union" and calls the police the killers of the judicial system. And this is a guy that thinks the lovebirds are innocent.

Their own Prime Minister called Italy a 'police state' that he vowed to end.

Maybe there's some truth to the idea that there is something rotten in the state of Umbria, the rank stench of corruption that's wafting from that police station...

 

[Amazer]

Their own Prime Minister called Italy a 'police state' that he vowed to end..

And?

Maybe there's some truth to the idea that there is something rotten in the state of Umbria, the rank stench of corruption that's wafting from that police station..

Maybe... I don't think you quoting Berlusconi is adding any weight to that idea though.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I agree that you aren't responsible for what others post. But when the pro-innocence posters ignore what he posts, it says a lot. Before someone asks, "what does it say?", it says that as long as someone is pro-innocence it doesn't matter if their posts are factually wrong, incoherent, or insulting to the Kerchers.

That, or I have them on ignore and have better thing to do than respond to them.

The day I see you on your PMF account responding to each and every factually wrong, incoherent or morally offensive post there will be the day I take seriously your pretence to believe that we all have a moral obligation to police those who agree with our conclusion about the Kercher case (as opposed to our specific arguments).

When someone posts that: I feel compelled to reply. I'm probably just feeding a troll.

At the very least it fills the thread up with unintelligent debate, making it much harder for onlookers to see the best version of either side's case.

Then again such behaviour benefits the side with a weaker case.

 

[Justinian2]

Meredith, just another dead body, got it.

Not what I said. I consider most NON-forensic statements about MK to be rule 11 violations. I said that this argument is primarily about the MILLIONS that are effected by bad justice every year. This thread is, to me, more about the future of justice for mankind and not the past of MK.

By fighting for Amanda's justice, we are fighting for good justice everywhere.

P.S. - Hey other pro-innocence folks....this guy makes you look really bad.

The following is an example of what is making guilters look bad:

From page 367 of the Massei translation:

Therefore it may be deduced that, accustomed to the consumption of drugs and the effects of the latter, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito participated actively in Rudy’s criminal acts aimed at overcoming Meredith’s resistance, subjugating her will and thus allowing Rudy to act out his lustful impulses; and this is considered to have happened because, for those [i.e. for people] who did not disdain the use of drugs (Amanda has stated that on that evening, before “making love”, they had consumed drugs watching films and reading comic books in which sexuality is accompanied by violence and by situations of fear, disregarding the concept of sexuality as an encounter of [two] persons moved by reciprocal and free emotion (see the comic books seized from Raffaele Sollecito and the statements […]