Maybe Scott is cleverer and more efficient at data collection/analysis than most others?
Can one get paid for this sort of thing? My masters always told me it was all about doing one's duty for Queen and Country, ensuring cricket will still be played on the village green etc. etc. I feel conned.
I have often wondered about this. I wouldn't hire one of these nuts, but is it any nuttier than a lot of the ideas that get cloaked as religion or spiritual beliefs?
If I didn't dislike the guy so much, I'd feel bad reading that. I've tried reasoning with the dude, but the ad homs started almost immediately. I have been a little less than patient but these guys accused me of some pretty nasty and totally unsubstantiated things.
In a randomly selected group of 10 truthers and 10, say, Christians, which group do you think would have the larger number of complete whackos, with serious personality problems? While people who believe in other sorts of woo might have their own issues, they're usually not as quick to anger or insult as the typical truther. Were I to be hiring for any job that involves working with other people, such a tendency would be a major negative.
And like most JREF members, I'll keep doing this as long as the Illuminati pays me, or I'm abducted by one of their alien servants and held in a subterranean city. Maybe they'll offer me a job using HAARP to kill black birds or sardines.
Honestly, I can understand your feeling. It really does seem, in some sense, like gloating over other's misfortune. I take part in these sorts of threads because I see the problem of 911 Truth quite differently than a lot of the people here.
I have said many times that I disagree with the standard position on HREF that the 911 Truth Movement is dead. There are many, many Truthers still out there. I estimate serious Truthers in the tens of thousands. That still makes them less than 1% of the US population, but it keeps the idea alive for the uniformed to trip across - that there really is doubt about what happened on 911.
I take part in these sorts of threads because there is a stream of thought that describes 911 Truth as a high-powered intellectual movement led by an army of the highly educated including the most qualified scientists and construction experts in the world. I am continually told by those, like our JREF friend ergo, that the existence of groups like AE911T proves this.
But unlike other groups composed of highly educated professionals, the 911 Truth Movement seems closely tied to people who openly steal donations (Luke Rudkowski), associate with drug dealers (Korey Rowe), beg for money from strangers to help their evicted family members (the quotes I posted) and so on. The only new faces in the crowd since 2006 are a pack of marginals.
Despite stories of big money scams associated with 911 Truth, I doubt more than a half dozen people make any money at all from the thing. There are no donations pouring in to power an army of respectable, educated volunteers.
Even though I believe that a large number of people support the crap, it is marginal and inconsequential. It is an Internet rumour that circulates among the ignorant. The financial misfortunes of its leadership point to the kind of person who's willing to do something more about 911 Truth than just sign an Internet petition. They're a pack of criminals, drug dealers, marginally employed, conmen and women, dropouts, and losers. And that my friend JJ is the 911 Truth Movement.
Wow, that second link is interesting. With my minor editing the statement below could have been made by the Führer himself. If Hitler came back would he become an anti-Semitic truther?
The jews responsible for 911 the Armistice of November 11, 1918, the engineered economic collapse, and all of our other ills knew way ahead of time people would eventually rise up in revolt against their murderous communist take over our countries, so they had plenty of time to make sure they had the necessary players in place to quell dissent, and using the techniques described above, they have enlisted millions of unwitting patriots to join their bogus “fight”.
Wow, that second link is interesting. With my minor editing the statement below could have been made by the Führer himself. If Hitler came back would he become an anti-Semitic truther?
That's the friends of the Truthers these days. It's the creepiest edge of the Right. You'll find Truthers in the John Birch Society, campaigning for the Ron Paul Revolution and hanging with the worst of the neo-Nazis. I don't think they are innocuous. They are broke, badly educated and desperate. Screaming for little bits of attention as intellectuals and respectable thinkers, they are willing to accept help from anyone in their Truth Revolution.
Sincerely, I once again understand why you feel this way. I think it's a misguided strategy with which to gather knowledge, though. Knowledge is not fashion and wearing it just to be different is silly, not to mention dangerous.
Look around at the Truth Movement. It's not the brightest minds of our time. It's silly people like that nutty Canadian woman who calls herself the Truther Girls. David Ray Griffin, one of few genuine scholars left preaching this slop, has been reduced to being interviewed by her.
It's not 1400+ architects and engineers. It's some number of people, many (most?) of whom aren't architects or anything of the sort, who put their name on an Internet petition - and that's it. That's the end of their commitment to ending the tyranny. They aren't members of the Truth Movement anymore than my colleague from the Bronx who quoted Michael Moore to me about how Bush had forewarning about 911, until I mentioned that Obama must also be in on it since he's not investigating it. That was the end of her commitment to 911 Truth. And putting your name on the Net isn't a commitment, either. Especially when the US Constitution and the Supreme Court assure it can be done with absolutely no risk.
No JJ, the people who are committed to the Truth Movement, who spend time talking to strangers about it, who spend their money on it, who live it as though they really did believe they were locked in a struggle against evil are pretty much summed up in the word LOSER.
They are David Chase Taylor who predicted that Obama would launch a nuclear attack on the Super Bowl, who has admitted that he can't get a job. It's Nelson & Trevor on Free Think Radio who once said that carbon dating doesn't work (bet you've that one somewhere before) and has been arrested for involvement in drunken fights. It's Samantha Hull on NFormD Radio who works as a waitress and tried to use her show to raise money for her relatives who had been evicted. It's Craig Fitzgerald who now seems to run We Are Change who has done serious prison time where he 'discovered' the Truth and now works as a building manager and does odd jobs. The list goes on and on and I would be happy to provide you with more identities of real Truth Movement workers.
So let's not go talking about some nameless, faceless Internet petition as some symbol of who is really involved in this 911 conspiracy crap. Let's look at who it's ground workers really are. And they are people you wouldn't let babysit your kids. They are bad people. They are stupid people. They are greedy, thieving, dishonest people. And that's the Truth Movement - I mean the real Truth Movement - at its best.
And that's who you're hooking up with by trying not to follow the herd.
Sincerely, I once again understand why you feel this way. I think it's a misguided strategy with which to gather knowledge, though. Knowledge is not fashion and wearing it just to be different is silly, not to mention dangerous.
I was referring specifically to this thread and Quad4_72's inclusion of me in his lazy phrase "you twoofers", reminiscent of phrases like "you blacks" or "you leftists" etc. Apparently he feels justified in doing this simply because I'm not in his tribe 100%, so therefore I must be in the other tribe, the ones to be laughed at and derided for hormonal gratification.
It's basically no different to the infantile, tribalist "If you're not for us, you're against us" approach beloved of war propagandists.
I was referring specifically to this thread and Quad4_72's inclusion of me in his lazy phrase "you twoofers", reminiscent of phrases like "you blacks" or "you leftists" etc. Apparently he feels justified in doing this simply because I'm not in his tribe 100%, so therefore I must be in the other tribe, the ones to be laughed at and derided for hormonal gratification.
It's basically no different to the infantile, tribalist "If you're not for us, you're against us" approach beloved of war propagandists.
Thanks for the response, but I'm not really talking to you. It's more like talking past you. I'm just trying to make my point about real Truthers being a pack of LOSERS and how anyone who thinks they're the intellectual cutting edge of things is being delusional.
Having said that, JJ just take a look in the politics sub-forum, for instance, there are many others.You see how much group think occurs here. Many that agree here, throw rocks...hard, at one another elsewhere.Wonder why?
This was one of the first things that struck me when I joined this forum. Many people who agreed on one subject (9/11 for example) were vehemently opposed to one another on another (the Palestinian issue for example).
All it takes is a quick perusal of the politics subforum to confirm this.
If I recall, this very thing was brought up to JJ the last time he had the nerve to suggest everybody who thinks the commonly-held narrative of 9/11 fits the available evidence the best is guilty of group think.
I couldn't be happier to hear that such despicable people are having trouble in their personal lives. Further evidence that 9/11 conspiracy theory does not come from scientists, engineers or the like. Rather it comes from completely uninformed (and apparently unemployed) sources.
The anger I feel towards "truthers" is what made me join this forum in the first place. Nice to see a bunch of level-headed people researching the facts as opposed to believing twenty year olds who have admitted to working on a piece of fiction.
Notice the part where Matt says: "editing WAC SA videos".
Quote:
......I have spent my time caught up in the V for Victory campaign, editing WAC SA videos, burning DVDs and organizing street actions......
__________________ http://911truthersexposed.blogspot.c...s-exposed.html Exposing the lies of Truthers!
Proof that Truthers lie out their ass through editted videos they make & sell.
I think the guy's an idiot just as much as you do, but I don't think he means he's editing videos that he then sells. Most of these videos would be given away on the street or posted on Youtube. WAC SA posts a lot of videos and the young Mr. Medina (he is 28) is willing to do his part. In fact, if you go to their Myspace account, you will see a Youtube video of Mr. Medina doing his thing. There's no money at all in this for him. I think the guy's a goof, but he is truly committed to this in a very real way. He is not one of these pretend Truthers who signs an Internet petition before they go back to work or one who hides behind an anonymous Internet Username. He truly believes that the government murders people all the time, and has transformed his life for 911 Truth. It is noteworthy that Mr. Medina has very strong Christian beliefs.
911 Truth has very little to do with money for anyone. It is a right wing political movement. It is a spin off from Obama Anti-Christ Theory. It is believed largely among Americans who live marginal lifestyles disassociated from success or professional life as it is represented traditionally in the media and middle-class life. I am increasingly leaning toward interpreting 911 Truth not as a cult belief or even irrational thought, but as a movement toward statelessness in the sense that James Scott uses the idea in the Art of Not Being Governed.
But unlike other groups composed of highly educated professionals, the 911 Truth Movement seems closely tied to people who openly steal donations (Luke Rudkowski), associate with drug dealers (Korey Rowe),
Funny, I've never heard of either of these people. I don't doubt (or care one way or another) that they are who Scott says they are, but it's irrelevant to 9/11 inquiry as a whole.
Scott's social crusade to discredit any truther he can find chooses to ignore the fact that there are unsavory types in the official story/9-11 bedunker camp as well. There are unsavory types of all different denominations in this world. They all have different belief systems. Many of them believe in the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld version of events. Many of them actually think Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are good ol' boys.
They're a pack of criminals, drug dealers, marginally employed, conmen and women, dropouts, and losers.
Gee, Scott, how did your psyientifick survey quantify "loser"? How many 9/11 truth "criminals" did you talk to? Where did you speak with them? In prison? What is the ratio of "dropouts" (another undefined term) in 9/11 truth to those in the non-truth population?
Comments like this are most notable for their foaming-at-the-mouth qualities. It's sad but not surprising to see a 9/11 bedunker attempting to use social science creds to spout personal opinion and invective. What's even more shocking is that he uses his real name while doing so.
Funny, I've never heard of either of these people. I don't doubt (or care one way or another) that they are who Scott says they are, but it's irrelevant to 9/11 inquiry as a whole.
Your google broke son? You never heard of them? Well, hell, you must be the *********** worst investigator ever.
Hey, lets listen to ergo! He does not know who two of the most high profile truthers are. I can't wait to read your next post! Maybe you'll find out that more than two buildings collapsed on 9/11!
Funny, I've never heard of either of these people. I don't doubt (or care one way or another) that they are who Scott says they are, but it's irrelevant to 9/11 inquiry as a whole.
I'm a little surprised by this remark. In fact, I don't believe you, and as much as it is true, it shows you are uninformed about what the Truth Movement truly has become. Have you never heard of We Are Change? Luke Rudkowski is the founder of the group. They are the only 911 Truth group in the USA able to launch public demonstrations. They sponsor and organize the ONLY 911 Truth demonstration in NYC every September. That's the demonstration that Dick Gage - you've heard of him, right? - now appears at. Luke regularly appears on Alex Jones - you know him, right? - as well as Russia - you've heard of the place, right? - Today.
It's actually not an attempt to discredit Truthers and their movement. All this began very much as an attempt to understand who could believe this sort of thing. I am only reporting what I have found in my work on this question. Seriously, if you can help me see a different picture of the 911 truth Movement, I'll write that one, too. But these Internet petitions don't prove anything to me. Most of the people signing, for example, AE911T, are not architects or engineers. Many names have been on the list for years and some probably represent a protest against the Bush Administration. How many would resign, remains an interesting question to me. Besides, AE911T appears unable to launch any sort of public demonstration or scholarly statement about their position. Almost everyone in their group has limited their commitment to signing an Internet petition and the group relies solely on Internet-based comments.
he can find chooses to ignore the fact that there are unsavory types in the official story/9-11 bedunker camp as well. There are unsavory types of all different denominations in this world. They all have different belief systems. Many of them believe in the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld version of events. Many of them actually think Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are good ol' boys.
I don't ignore these guys and their insidious right wing destruction of the world. They are criminals and should be in prison. They just have nothing to do with my interest in the structure of 911 conspiracy ideation.
Gee, Scott, how did your psyientifick survey quantify "loser"? How many 9/11 truth "criminals" did you talk to? Where did you speak with them? In prison? What is the ratio of "dropouts" (another undefined term) in 9/11 truth to those in the non-truth population?
This is a good question. I don't know the answer. I have no controls in my study, which was only description of group members. I suspect members of these kinds of groups are quite representative of a growing kind of dissatisfaction you find in white working-class urban youth. On other characteristics, they probably are very representative of this category.
This was a very civil remark and I hope we can keep on terms like this. I'll be glad to reply to anything you post that's on the same level. My hope is that you can help me understand why it is you believe 911 Truth ideation is widespread among the educated professional strata. I may be wrong about this. I doubt it, but I am willing to entertain the idea.
Funny, I've never heard of either of these people. I don't doubt (or care one way or another) that they are who Scott says they are, but it's irrelevant to 9/11 inquiry as a whole.
...
Incredible.
You have never heard of Korey Rowe??
He was the producer of the singlemost influential movie documentary of the 9/11 "truth" movement, Loose Change.
Have you heard of Loose Change?
Can you google or WP "Loose Change"?
I couldn't be happier to hear that such despicable people are having trouble in their personal lives. Further evidence that 9/11 conspiracy theory does not come from scientists, engineers or the like. Rather it comes from completely uninformed (and apparently unemployed) sources.
The anger I feel towards "truthers" is what made me join this forum in the first place. Nice to see a bunch of level-headed people researching the facts as opposed to believing twenty year olds who have admitted to working on a piece of fiction.
Welcome PGH! Yes you have came to the right place if you are looking for knowledge on 9/11. The members of this forum are probably some of the most well versed people on the planet when it comes to 9/11. Of course there are always a few bad apples, such as ergo, but hey, this place wouldn't exist if it weren't for the nutters!
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How many 9/11 truth "criminals" did you talk to? Where did you speak with them? In prison? What is the ratio of "dropouts" (another undefined term) in 9/11 truth to those in the non-truth population? 
