General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Thunder]

And do you have a list of German goods that are boycotted by Jews? I know of Bayer boycotts - could that have something to do with not wanting to support a company that was involved in the holocaust?

its 2011. do you think its fair to STILL boycott companies that had something to do with the Nazis....66 years ago?

I find it strange that its illegal for an American company owned by an Arab, who's family was forced to flee Palestine in 1948...is NOT allowed to boycott Israeli products. But an American company owned by a Jew who's family came to the USA from Germany in 1877 IS allowed to today boycott German products. Funny huh?

 

[Thunder]

Are these Jews trying to change German foreign policy through boycott?

Poor analogy. You were trying to support 'free expression' anyway.

we, the USA, boycotted South Africa. but we can't boycott Israeli products made in the West Bank settlements? that's a no-no.

interesting.

never mind the fact that the Israeli Minister of Tourism called on Israelis to boycott Turkey a few years ago, after Turkey dared to criticize Israel over its Gaza embargo. Did this guy go to jail or pay a fine, for his call for a "discriminatory" boycott against Turkey? no...no he did not.

so class, what have we learned today?

well, we learned that its BAD to boycott Israeli products, and even Israeli products and services from the illegal settlements in the West Bank. But.....its all ok..because boycotting Turkey and Germany is OK.

why is it ok? I'm not really sure. But it is.


we also learned that its ok for the Israeli govt. to NOT officially recognize the genocide of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire, so many years ago. why is this ok? because Turkey and Israel are (or were) allies, and Israel just can't be expected to offend its best buddy in the Middle East.

.....but its not ok for nations to deny the Holocaust, even if its to not offend Germany. That would be bad.

why is it bad to deny the Holocaust...but not bad to deny the Armenian genocide? I'm not really sure...but it is.

 

[angrysoba]

that's because using the Hamas Charter to claim that Hamas seeks the extermination of the Jewish people, is silly.

get it? got it?

thought not.

Yeah, using the Hamas Charter to explain intentions and policies of Hamas is, like, so silly and if you think about it really unfair!

Why's it unfair as well as silly? Well, because having it all written down there in black and white for all to see is really, really incriminating. Everybody, including witless supporters of Hamas, knows just how bad the words are that when they are shown to supporters and sympathizers and I-honestly-have-no-opinioners after about five or six times (because it often takes that many times before they finally get down off their "anti-Zionist" soapbox to read the bloody thing) their first response is always to deny that such words could possibly be written in the Charter. Why do they deny those words? Well, because again they are acknowledging exactly how incriminating those words are.

So from there they could say, and it would be reasonable enough to do this, "Oh my! I never knew those words were in there! I didn't realize and I think I may have to seriously reconsider my position somewhat!"

But instead they go into dissembling mode or move the goalposts or discover that Hamas have no agency by either:

a) Going into complete denial (has bikerdruid actually acknowledged that those words were in the Charter yet?)
b) Blaming Israel for the words in the Charter: It must be Israel's fault for driving Hamas to this position or, I know, didn't Israel, like, totally support Hamas in the First Intifada or something - I read it in "Pain-in-the-Ass Reactionary Leftism For Dummies".
c) Opining that, get this, "Trees and stones don't talk ROLFMAO !"
d) Making a string of fatuous diversionary comments about how quoting Hamas' Charter must mean you're a racist/bigot/somethingorother.

 

[Thunder]

But instead they go into dissembling mode or move the goalposts or discover that Hamas have no agency by either:

b) Blaming Israel for the words in the Charter: It must be Israel's fault for driving Hamas to this position or, I know, didn't Israel, like, totally support Hamas in the First Intifada or something - I read it in "Pain-in-the-Ass Reactionary Leftism For Dummies"..

errr...no one has done that here. you must be talking about another forum.

c) Opining that, get this, "Trees and stones don't talk ROLFMAO !"

a pretty bad attempt at a paraphrase, but you're kinda correct. it is funny as hell.

d) Making a string of fatuous diversionary comments about how quoting Hamas' Charter must mean you're a racist/bigot/something or other.

again, I'm not sure which forum this is from, but it ain't JREF.

 

[angrysoba]

errr...no one has done that here. you must be talking about another forum.

So what?

a pretty bad attempt at a paraphrase, but you're kinda correct. it is funny as hell.

It's practically verbatim, Parky.

again, I'm not sure which forum this is from, but it ain't JREF.

Bikerdruid refused to believe the words were in the Charter saying Hamas have no genocidal plans but only want to destroy the state of Israel (y'know the anti-Zionist dream). Afterwards while stilll not acknowledging those words were there he said he never supported Hamas anyway:

please show where i have ever 'defended' hamas.
other than my previous post, i don't think i have even mentioned them.
they are just another government.

all governments suck.

it is the palestinian people i defend. not their leaders.
since arafat, they have been in need of strong and moral leadership.

please answer my question.....why do you hate arabs so?

 

[Thunder]

It's practically verbatim, Parky.

the actual quote isn't that hard to find. if you really felt like it, you could have used the actual quote...rather than adding your own little joyfull jibberjabber at the end.

and by the way, "practically verbatim" is like being "practically pregnant". you is, or you isn't.

 

[bikerdruid]

a) Going into complete denial (has bikerdruid actually acknowledged that those words were in the Charter yet?)

apparently they are in the charter. i stand corrected.
however, if that is the case, i would be certain that they do not speak for the average palestinian.
the average palestinian, like tha average person everywhere, just wants home, family security and peace.

 

[angrysoba]

"joyfull jibberjabber [sic]"

stones & trees don't talk, so its kind of a moot point.

err.......talking trees and rocks do not frighten me.

Hamas Support Thread

folks who listen to trees and stones need not worry you.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6502960&postcount=28

Hamas themselves call for the genocide of the jews.

because rocks and trees say so?

lololololololol

 

[Thunder]

"joyfull jibberjabber [sic]"

Hamas Support Thread

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6502960&postcount=28

what's your point?

(am I going to regret asking?)

 

[angrysoba]

apparently they are in the charter. i stand corrected.
however, if that is the case, i would be certain that they do not speak for the average palestinian.
the average palestinian, like tha average person everywhere, just wants home, family security and peace.

I agree with you (or certainly hope) that the average Palestinian wants peace. Just like the average Israeli.

Two problems:

a) It seems clear that Hamas is not the average Palestinian.

b) Unfortunately a lot of average Palestinians voted for Hamas. And we now have the difficult question of squaring the circle that they are both the democratic voice of Palestine (or at least Gaza) and that they don't speak for the average Palestinian.

But I acknowledge your acknowledgement and thank you for that.

 

[Thunder]

b) Unfortunately a lot of average Palestinians voted for Hamas.

I consider that to have been an act of desperation, a simple choice between the lesser of two evils.

I also think that if Hamas allowed another general parliamentary election in Gaza, Hamas would LOSE the majority. But Hamas has shown no interest in allowing another election. Not now...and not ever.

 

[The Fool]

Yeah, using the Hamas Charter to explain intentions and policies of Hamas is, like, so silly and if you think about it really unfair!

Why's it unfair as well as silly? Well, because having it all written down there in black and white for all to see is really, really incriminating. Everybody, including witless supporters of Hamas, knows just how bad the words are that when they are shown to supporters and sympathizers and I-honestly-have-no-opinioners after about five or six times (because it often takes that many times before they finally get down off their "anti-Zionist" soapbox to read the bloody thing) their first response is always to deny that such words could possibly be written in the Charter. Why do they deny those words? Well, because again they are acknowledging exactly how incriminating those words are.

So from there they could say, and it would be reasonable enough to do this, "Oh my! I never knew those words were in there! I didn't realize and I think I may have to seriously reconsider my position somewhat!"

But instead they go into dissembling mode or move the goalposts or discover that Hamas have no agency by either:

a) Going into complete denial (has bikerdruid actually acknowledged that those words were in the Charter yet?)
b) Blaming Israel for the words in the Charter: It must be Israel's fault for driving Hamas to this position or, I know, didn't Israel, like, totally support Hamas in the First Intifada or something - I read it in "Pain-in-the-Ass Reactionary Leftism For Dummies".
c) Opining that, get this, "Trees and stones don't talk ROLFMAO !"
d) Making a string of fatuous diversionary comments about how quoting Hamas' Charter must mean you're a racist/bigot/somethingorother.

boring repetative strawmanathon.....

look son, I know its pretty sad that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily agree with your interpretation of what something means. but you need to get over it....

 

[Thunder]

boring repetative strawmanathon.....

look son, I know its pretty sad that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily agree with your interpretation of what something means. but you need to get over it....

strawmanathon. I like it. can I use it?

and yes, folks need to get over having the rest of the world not agreeing with them.

 

[The Fool]

strawmanathon. I like it. can I use it?

and yes, folks need to get over having the rest of the world not agreeing with them.

The thing that gets me is some chest thumping about talking rocks and trees in the Hamas charter must mean that they have a genocidal desire for Jews everywhere... yet......the clear words in the likud platform that there will not be a palestinian state, ever, under any circumstances........doesn't seem to be interpreted as Likud are not going to ever allow a palestinian state.

Hmmm, I guess people see what they need to see.....

 

[Thunder]

The thing that gets me is some chest thumping about talking rocks and trees in the Hamas charter must mean that they have a genocidal desire for Jews everywhere... yet......the clear words in the likud platform that there will not be a palestinian state, ever, under any circumstances........doesn't seem to be interpreted as Likud are not going to ever allow a palestinian state.

Hmmm, I guess people see what they need to see.....

Fact: The Israeli Knesset has failed to pass a resolution recognizing the right of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. Hell....they haven't passed a resolution recognizing the right of a Palestinian State in ANY part of the West Bank and Gaza.

.....but the Israelis want the Palestinians to remove anti-Israel passages in the PLO Charter and recognize Israel as a Jewish State.


cute huh?


Fact: Israel is close to passing a law making it illegal for Israelis to boycott products and services from the West Bank. But two years ago, the Israeli Minister of Tourism called on Israelis to boycott Turkey.


sweet ay?


Fact: Israel expects the nations of the world to acknowledge and recognize the Holocaust, yet they REFUSE to pass a resolution acknowledging the genocide of Armenians at the hands of the Turks.

cool eh?

 

[angrysoba]

I consider that to have been an act of desperation, a simple choice between the lesser of two evils.

I also think that if Hamas allowed another general parliamentary election in Gaza, Hamas would LOSE the majority. But Hamas has shown no interest in allowing another election. Not now...and not ever.

Wow! It sounds almost as if you think Hamas are bad and that should they be criticized for having anti-semitism at the core of their political platform then you won't rush to defend them with the power of joyfull [sic] jibberjabber.

 

[Thunder]

Wow! It sounds almost as if you think Hamas are bad

if you actually paid attention to my posts at JREF, you would know that I have called them war criminals several times and have called for their leaders to be tried at The Hague for war crimes.


...but acknowleding such statements by me, kinda ruins your curious agenda, don't it?

 

[angrysoba]

boring repetative strawmanathon.....

look son, I know its pretty sad that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily agree with your interpretation of what something means. but you need to get over it....

I am not really sure how you can interpret the "rocks and trees" quote from the Koran and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion references as anything other than anti-semitic.

But I'm all ears if you want to add to the list with (e) plain words don't have the blatantly obvious meaning that they obviously have. They mean something completely different and anyway, what is Truth? Or something along those lines which you are now going to elucidate for us.

 

[Thunder]

I am not really sure how you can interpret the "rocks and trees" quote from the Koran and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion references as anything other than anti-semitic.

err....The Fool didn't say that.

no wonder you didn't quote his post. Ahhh...I see what you did.


by not actually quoting his post, you can make believe he said one thing AND bash it, when he really said something else. very cute. very slick.

 

[angrysoba]

if you actually paid attention to my posts at JREF, you would know that I have called them war criminals several times and have called for their leaders to be tried at The Hague for war crimes.


...but acknowleding such statements by me, kinda ruins your curious agenda, don't it?

I can't help it if every time I click on a thread I find another post by you trying to contextualize or wave away Hamas quotes or explain that Hamas are the good guys in Gaza for their stalwart effort in cracking down on those who fire missiles into Israel.