Merged Their Return

[EHocking]

How many people have signed up for this Moment Skyward?

35!

 

[dafydd]

35!

35 out of 7 billion. It's on a roll,they will have to come down now.

 

[Yeah_Right]

I'm not signing anything, if they come down and attack as in that Battle Los Angeles flick.

 

[tsig]

There were "6" star-like objects, and the ONE semetrical cloud they emerged from.

The thing that I find disagreement with, is that if a singular mistake, or god forbid a typo occurs then you and other think it is okay to toss the whole account...

Given, it is 'common' for people to misremember, make mistakes in recollection, or otherwise be incorrect about about an event or sighting, you are safe from ANY report...simply because no one has a 100% perfect memory.

And this is where your Willful Ignorance takes over.

No one is perfect, so NO REPORTS can be accepted as containing any truth.

I relayed another anecdote about a fake diamond I saw as a child. Have you made the phone call that would confirm or deny this story?

Phone #? Email? Address?

 

[dafydd]

Kota,have you been in touch with the Olympic organizers? If yes,please share the reply.

 

[King of the Americas]

...

You're obviously playing this out in your head like a bad sci-fi movie script... a rejected script. Seriously, it's embarrassing. Grow up already.

On second thought, THE BEST thing that could happen, is if they show up...but DON'T land. They just put on a show, then leave...

That would give you skeptics the opportunity to chill out a bit, and let it sink in that we are really not alone.

Then we could all talk about what to do next.

If they just showed up, in the flesh, I think that might redline too many people's freak-out-meter.

 

[King of the Americas]

Would there be handicaps if they have four legs and four arms? Just out out of interest,how many people have signed up for this Moment Skyward nonsense? "Showing us that they are ''god'' at all'' is not grammatically correct and is meaningless. Is English your first language?

I was thinking the whole event would lead us to making genetic modification as illegal as steriods...

 

[King of the Americas]

Phone #? Email? Address?

Did you find the number and make the call, yet?

 

[King of the Americas]

Have you read any further than the misrepresented, sensationalistic reports written up by UFOlogists?... Supported by a heavily retouched photo that doesn't actually show anything?

I've only revently seen a History Channel summery of the event.

WHat do you mean the photo doesn't 'show' anything. The photograph WAS front page news, and clearly shows several lightes focused an a U.F.O...

2 things stick out in my head, the photograph and the fact that our military expended several thousand rounds above a civilian area, that suffered damages.

 

[King of the Americas]

35!

I am going to repost it on another petition site.

You have to be on facebook, to sign this one.

Given I don't facebook, I haven't even signed it yet.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

All those people at the World Cup had their arms in the air, and that didn't bring them down. Maybe they hate vuvuzelas as much as some of us. What if the Olympic organizers use kazoos instead?

 

[bruto]

On second thought, THE BEST thing that could happen, is if they show up...but DON'T land. They just put on a show, then leave...

That would give you skeptics the opportunity to chill out a bit, and let it sink in that we are really not alone.

Then we could all talk about what to do next.

If they just showed up, in the flesh, I think that might redline too many people's freak-out-meter.

I think it would be cool if they flew over and dropped money. No mantas from heaven though. From that altitude they become death rays.

 

[Stray Cat]

I've only revently seen a History Channel summery of the event.

Yes, the re-emergence of interest in the story probably has something to do with the multi-million dollar Hollywood movie being released.

WHat do you mean the photo doesn't 'show' anything. The photograph WAS front page news, and clearly shows several lightes focused an a U.F.O...

I don't think the photo was front page news. Though at least this time, it did appear in the newpaper.
And perhaps you could tell us how on a clear night, searchlights manage to leave such a distinct beam of light?
One of the comments at the time which questioned the theory that it was Japanese planes flying over, was why would the Japanese choose such a clear night when they were could so easily be seen. Now light when shone into clear skies doesn't leave a beam. Of course if the air were filled with AA explosive smoke, that would make the beams show up, but that would not be evident all the way down to ground level.

So we then look at how the beams of light managed to show so clearly. Looking at the poor quality of the negative, with it's grainy appearance and lack of detail, it is quite odd that the beams of light look smooth with very defined edges. Almost as if they were airbrushed on afterwards... go figure.

Now Frank Warren claims to have made prints from the original negative, which I presume means he has or at least had the original negative, but I've never seen any evidence to support this claim. If the original as reproduced by the LA times was available, then surely the records of the LA Times would also show the photographer's name, but again, we seem to have a photo that has no author, reproduced in a newspaper alongside several other photos that have various arrows, circles etc, superimposed on them, so why not 'enhance' the search light picture too?

Illustration: The Battle of Baghdad.

2 things stick out in my head, the photograph and the fact that our military expended several thousand rounds above a civilian area, that suffered damages.

So a couple of weeks after the attack on Pearl Harbour, a few days after a Japanese submarine had surfaced off the coast of LA and shelled an oil refinery, you think that the Coastal defence command wouldn't be a bit jittery?
That on that very night at about 3am, 2 illuminated weather balloons (capable of reaching 30,000 feet) were launched from Sawtelle Veteran's Hospital in Westwood and the Douglas Aircraft Plant Site in Santa Monica.

What is most likely taking all the evidence into account is that it was the balloons that were spotted and because of the high alert status at the time, some relatively inexperienced gunners opened fire. Not a single gunner at the time reported seeing any aircraft, balloons of flying saucers. They were blindly shooting up in the air and as the AA flack exploded, other gunners were shooting at it causing a chain reaction with everyone shooting at everyone else's flack. Eventually smoke build up may have lead to some people seeing faint images in the searchlight beams and leaving them with with a perception of seeing something slow moving, being shot at.

Certainly, it wasn't until years later that any talk of UFO's/Flying Saucers/Aliens comes into the story at all... but it takes time to develop a good myth as we all know.

 

[King of the Americas]

All those people at the World Cup had their arms in the air, and that didn't bring them down. Maybe they hate vuvuzelas as much as some of us. What if the Olympic organizers use kazoos instead?

Did the World Cup include "a moment skyward" to the program?

 

[King of the Americas]

...

[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/Battle-of-Blimp.jpg[/qimg]
Illustration: The Battle of Baghdad.


So a couple of weeks after the attack on Pearl Harbour, a few days after a Japanese submarine had surfaced off the coast of LA and shelled an oil refinery, you think that the Coastal defence command wouldn't be a bit jittery?
That on that very night at about 3am, 2 illuminated weather balloons (capable of reaching 30,000 feet) were launched from Sawtelle Veteran's Hospital in Westwood and the Douglas Aircraft Plant Site in Santa Monica.

...

Certainly, it wasn't until years later that any talk of UFO's/Flying Saucers/Aliens comes into the story at all... but it takes time to develop a good myth as we all know.

..there were "2" balloons...slow moving...that SURVIVED some 1,400 anti-aircraft shells? Wow, I'd always thought "balloons" were very light delicate things, easy to puncture...

If it was slow moving balloon, how would it have survived the barrage that put all that smack and smoke in the air, in order to be caught in the photograph???

Buddy, that doesn't make any sense, whatsoever.

But say it was a balloon, where is it? Did anyone see it rapidly descend once it was hit, and recover it?

And why would you post a picture that looks nothing like the original? (more mockery I presume).

Not everyone believes that it was balloons:

"...A strong editorial in the Washington Post on 27 February called the handling of the Los Angeles episode a "recipe for jitters," and censured the military authorities for what it called "stubborn silence" in the face of widespread uncertainty. The editorial suggested that the Army’s theory that commercial planes might have caused the alert "explains everything except where the planes came from, whither they were going, and why no American planes were sent in pursuit of them." The New York Times on 28 February expressed a belief that the more the incident was studied, the more incredible it became: "If the batteries were firing on nothing at all, as Secretary Knox implies, it is a sign of expensive incompetence and jitters. If the batteries were firing on real planes, some of them as low as 9,000 feet, as Secretary Stimson declares, why were they completely ineffective? Why did no American planes go up to engage them, or even to identify them?... What would have happened if this had been a real air raid?..."

Japan claims it never had any planes over the continental U.S.

Could you post a picture of one of those weather balloons, so we can compare it to the picture?

 

[carlitos]

serious responses that were ignored

And yet this silly request received serious responses.

So the OP wants us to speculate how to entice an assumed non-human intelligent race that lives in the near proximity of earth to reveal themselves to us. Unfortunately they have hidden themselves so well that we only have fleeting glimpses of them and know nothing about their nature or motivations. I am still reading this thread sorry if this is currently irrelevant.

IF we assume that they are grooming us for fodder and DNA source material I would think that like attracting bird to land, or a raccoon to visit your porch you might place out a big bowl of food out in plain sight perhaps shine lights on it. Any large sporting event could also be applicable.

IF we assume that they are really super intelligent and are looking for peers not subjects. It would also be reasonable to also think that they will see through our clumsy attempts at appeasement and see us as the backwards race we are and not worthy of revelation yet. Perhaps they will reveal themselves once they have determined we have advanced far enough mentally. The appeasement / adoration you imply would clearly indicate to them that we are not ready.

IF we assume that they are a bunch of joy riding hot rods that get a kick out of coming down every now and them to buzz some small group out in the middle of nowhere. Then there is probably nothing we can due to entice them, they get their kicks out of being mysterious and don’t want the spot light. If they did they would have already taken center stage somewhere. The World Cup Finals would have been an excellent opportunity. As pointed out if they did descend it would turn ANY event into a major event and all eyes would be turned in that direction.

IF we assume that they are waiting for us to reach some sort of mental level that has abandoned superstition and that their revelation will not cause worldwide panic. I would imagine that they would be waiting for a large majority of us to adopt a scientific mindset instead of a superstitious one. The best way to get them to descend would be to have the majority of the world to abandon religions and convert all the Houses of Worship into sometime more useful like parking lots, brothels or play grounds.

IF we assume that they are allergic to or find poisonous the trace byproducts of the burning of fossil fuels then they will not descend until we move completely to alternate energy methods and then atmosphere had been cleansed through natural processes.

IF we assume that they are out there and want to deal with humans on a business level perhaps they are already doing that. But they know that by revealing themselves they will cause significant damage to the economy and cause significant instability in the political realm. This would not be a problem is the majority of the world was largely under the sway of say a large corporation or a one world government. They are waiting on the New World Order or Wal-Mart to come to power so they only have to negotiate one treaty instead of hundreds.

IF we assume that they have developed sensory organs that can detect the radio frequency range they will probably not descend until we abandon that technology or they develop filters that do not affect their ability to communicate.

IF we assume that they find the odor of concrete or asphalt offensive that would explain why they never actually land in cities or populated areas. To get them to descend we would need to tear down all the concrete structures and rip up all the asphalt and find alternate construction methods and materials.

IF we assume that they really don’t care what we do or think and are nothing more than lab animals or pets, I think that anything that we do would solicit no more than a note in a technicians log book or an ‘isn’t that cute’ from a more kind hearted individual… if they have hearts…

If we assume that they actually feed off the psychic energy generated by emotional turmoil the best way to get them to descend would be to establish world peace. This would cause them to starve and force them out. However if this is the case they would probably do something to destabilize the Peace that has been established by setting themselves of as the enemy that we can’t reach. Perhaps they would operate covertly with targeted assassinations turning body guards on their charges when they appear too reasonable, initiate riots to destabilize governments, plant evidence of WMDs to instigate wars, fund fundamentalist organizations of all stripes to keep us at odds with each other and destroy our common round, call in to talk radio shows…

Whee that was fun.

Well that would largely depend on three factors:

1. Why did they remove themselves from the surface?

2. Why have they chosen not to reveal themselves publicly before?

3. What is it they want from us ultimately?

At this time the evidence is tenuous regarding thier existance but we have granted that for the sake of discussion. Once we have established some real information not just speculation about at least one of the factors above perhaps we might stand a chance of coming up with a reasonable plan.

If we are just playing pretend we can have some fun with lots of plausible things that answer the question. However if you want to make this an actionalable plan then please provide for the board the data (not just speculation) you have regarding how you have arrived at an answer to the questions above.

 

[Stray Cat]

..there were "2" balloons...slow moving...that SURVIVED some 1,400 anti-aircraft shells? Wow, I'd always thought "balloons" were very light delicate things, easy to puncture...

On the whole they are. However, if they are somewhere around 30,000 feet and the AA batteries which were equipped with 3" guns could only reach a height of 25,000 feet, they would have survived without a scratch.

If it was slow moving balloon, how would it have survived the barrage that put all that smack and smoke in the air, in order to be caught in the photograph???

See above (that's the reply directly above, not simply take a moment skywards).

Buddy, that doesn't make any sense, whatsoever.

I know it won't make sense to you. Because you genuinely employ willful ignorance. If you looked at all the evidence, you would see that which is verifiable from records of the time.

But say it was a balloon, where is it? Did anyone see it rapidly descend once it was hit, and recover it?

If the balloon or both of them were what was seen, It/they wasn't hit, it/they was too high.

And why would you post a picture that looks nothing like the original? (more mockery I presume).

It's called recycling. I made that picture last year sometime when this case was discussed in Rramjet's UFO thread... Yes, a bit of mockery.

Not everyone believes that it was balloons:

Correct, not everyone believes it was balloons. I don't believe it was balloons either. I have no idea what it was. However, there is verifiable evidence to show that 2 illuminated weather balloons were released in the vicinity at about the time this kerfuffle started and therefore it is a more likely explanation than some aliens in a space ship. And furthermore, an explanation that has not been ruled out by those promoting a more exotic explanation.

"...A strong editorial in the Washington Post on 27 February called the handling of the Los Angeles episode a "recipe for jitters," and censured the military authorities for what it called "stubborn silence" in the face of widespread uncertainty. The editorial suggested that the Army’s theory that commercial planes might have caused the alert "explains everything except where the planes came from, whither they were going, and why no American planes were sent in pursuit of them." The New York Times on 28 February expressed a belief that the more the incident was studied, the more incredible it became: "If the batteries were firing on nothing at all, as Secretary Knox implies, it is a sign of expensive incompetence and jitters. If the batteries were firing on real planes, some of them as low as 9,000 feet, as Secretary Stimson declares, why were they completely ineffective? Why did no American planes go up to engage them, or even to identify them?... What would have happened if this had been a real air raid?..."

Hey go figure, when the Japanese submarine surfaced and started shooting at an oil refinery in LA 2 weeks before, the US military didn't even get a single retaliatory shot in and they didn't half get some stick for that. This time they made sure they shot lots (even though there may have been nothing there to shoot at). As for why no planes were sent up, well I guess the people on the ground at the time realised that the AA gunners were shooting at nothing or a balloon and decided not to bother. It's no surprise that the military didn't want talk about it... there was a war on you know.

Japan claims it never had any planes over the continental U.S.

No it doesn't. Japanese war records (examined after their surrender in 1945) mention at least one bombing raid on the US in 1942, 800 miles North of LA in Oregon.

Could you post a picture of one of those weather balloons, so we can compare it to the picture?

What you are seeing in the photo is not real. It is heavily airbrushed.

 

[Psiload]

I've only revently seen a History Channel summery of the event.

WHat do you mean the photo doesn't 'show' anything. The photograph WAS front page news, and clearly shows several lightes focused an a U.F.O...

2 things stick out in my head, the photograph and the fact that our military expended several thousand rounds above a civilian area, that suffered damages.

If you had taken the time to do some actual research, rather than blasting away with your confabulation cannon and jumping to your usual ET UFO ZOMGIES! conclusions, you would have discovered the following:

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/29/local/me-then29/2

Sirens wailed for an hour and 1,430 shells were fired at the supposed intruder. Five people died -- three in car crashes and two of heart attacks -- and scores were injured during the blackout. Some homes, cars and streets were damaged by shrapnel in the so-called Battle of Los Angeles.

I'm not even going to bother to ask you where you got your "tens of thousands of rounds", later revised down to "several thousand rounds" information, because I know exactly where you pulled it out of.

And if you had bothered to read the caption under the picture in the LA Times article which you posted, you might have learned something interesting. The "UFOs" you claim are shown in the picture? Yeah, well they are actually IFOs. They're IDed right in the caption under the picture.

"SEEKING OUT OBJECT - Scores of searchlights built a wigwam of
light beams over Los Angeles early yesterday morning during the
alarm. This picture was taken during blackout; shows nine beams
converging on an object in sky in Culver City area.The blobs of light which
show at apex of beam angles were made by anti-aircraft shells."

 

[King of the Americas]

...

What you are seeing in the photo is not real. It is heavily airbrushed.

The newspaper photograph, in the 1942 publication was airbrushed, and or featured a "balloon" flying at 30,000 feet, whereas the flack and smoke was at a mere 25,000 feet.

That's what you are saying?

So if, when we produce a picture of the weather balloon(s) in question, and they look NOTHING like the image with all the lights pointed toward it, will you then argue that the photograph itself was alter to NOT look like the balloons?

Or is that your argument to start, that a newspaper ran a picture of a balloon, doctered to look like a U.F.O., during a war...?

In summery, you think we shot 1,400 anti-aircraft at balloons that were tracked coming in from the Pacific...?

 

[Psiload]

The newspaper photograph, in the 1942 publication was airbrushed, and or featured a "balloon" flying at 30,000 feet, whereas the flack and smoke was at a mere 25,000 feet.

That's what you are saying?

So if, when we produce a picture of the weather balloon(s) in question, and they look NOTHING like the image with all the lights pointed toward it, will you then argue that the photograph itself was alter to NOT look like the balloons?

Or is that your argument to start, that a newspaper ran a picture of a balloon, doctered to look like a U.F.O., during a war...?

In summery, you think we shot 1,400 anti-aircraft at balloons that were tracked coming in from the Pacific...?

The LA Times never claimed that the picture showed enemy aircraft, weather balloons, or UFOs.

The caption under the photograph clearly identifies the blobs of light pictured to be bursting AA rounds.