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Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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misleading

Since I was the one that asked for evidence of this often repeated story of Dempsey, I did not have to 'prove' anything so claiming otherwise is a lie.

As for the links which show how well Dempsey "sourced" her story, I tried to sum up previously. The sources given to back up Dempsey story, were of Lumumba arrest going to the Questura in the early morning of 6th November, and that halides1 tried to justify by saying that “approach” should be changed to “leave.” (direct quote from halides1).

odeed,

You speak misleadingly, but thank you for linking back to my comment. I said, "I surmise that the word 'approach' should be changed to 'leave.'" (my bolding today)

In previous comments (message #15996 from the first continuation thread), you seemed to ignore the cameraman and Elio Bertoldi as sources for the story. I wonder why.
 
authenticity

Sorry response was for Kaosium.


I didn’t stat whether Amanda thought it could be possible just that she was told that the initial test could be a false positive.

In the spirit of links from Perugia Shock one has been posted on TJMK, maybe you can confirm or refute its authenticity?

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage92/9294.pdf

CoulsdonUK,

Obviously I cannot confirm or refute its authenticity, but I suspect that it is genuine. Taking its authenticity as a given, I grant that my memory of her words was not accurate, and I thank you for pointing it out. However, the medical rationale for telling someone that they might be positive before doing the follow-up testing is still very much open to question in my mind. Some physicians that I consulted on this point said that they would not reveal the preliminary tests; at least one said that he would only do so to dissuade the individual from further risky behavior. Moreover, the behavior of ILE in this case suggests to me that Amnesty International's assessment was spot-on. MOO.
 
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CoulsdonUK,

Obviously I cannot confirm or refute its authenticity, but I suspect that it is genuine. Taking its authenticity as a given, I grant that my memory of her words was not accurate, and I thank you for pointing it out. However, the medical rationale for telling someone that they might be positive before doing the follow-up testing is still very much open to question in my mind. Some physicians that I consulted on this point said that they would not reveal the preliminary tests; at least one said that he would only do so to dissuade the individual from further risky behavior. Moreover, the behavior of ILE in this case suggests to me that Amnesty International's assessment was spot-on. MOO.

I wonder how such test are administered within a prison environment? A stupid question probably what is MOO?
 
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my opinions only

I wonder how such test are administered within a prison environment? A stupid question probably what is MOO?

CoulsdonUK,

MOO stands for "my opinions only," and I try to add it to most of my comments, to indicate that I am not speaking for any organization of which I am a part. Someone with a better memory than I have should probably answer, but Machiavelli may have commented on your question some months ago.
 
I wonder how such test are administered within a prison environment? A stupid question probably what is MOO?

1. They take a blood sample from the prisoner and send it to a lab for analysis.

2. MOO= My Opinion Only (or Matter of Opinion)
 
Since I was the one that asked for evidence of this often repeated story of Dempsey, I did not have to 'prove' anything so claiming otherwise is a lie.

I wasn't talking about you, Odeed, I was thinking of Kermit, actually. I miss him, he was good at what he did and had a sense of humor. I'd forgotten you were involved in that discussion. Thus I will have to disappoint you horribly and not admit to my 'lie.' I will try to make it up to you by 'lying' about you in the future if it will make you feel more oppressed! :D

As for the links which show how well Dempsey "sourced" her story, I tried to sum up previously. The sources given to back up Dempsey story, were of Lumumba arrest going to the Questura in the early morning of 6th November, and that halides1 tried to justify by saying that “approach” should be changed to “leave.” (direct quote from halides1).

Yeah, I think you'd have been better off had you not called Halides1 'dishonest,' being as his reasoning was perfectly sound, and if anything he was merely mistaken. Maybe he doesn't have the same sense of amused surrealism as I do about someone accusing him of 'lying' about such tiny details in order to confuse or frighten Odeed. :p

So just to be absolutely certain of what you're arguing: you believe all those reports were of Lumumba being driven to the Questura?

If that's the case, I disagree, only one is, the seven car one. All the rest detail the trip from the Questura to the Central Jail, which they called a 'police station' or the 'central police station.' Thus they both had to 'approach' and 'leave' what they were calling a 'police station.' Confusing? Yes, it's what happens when you rely overmuch on tabloids for sources, they tend not to be too particular about terminology or details at times. If you prefer to believe that big display was all about the arrest of Patrick and not the 'perp drive' through Perugia, feel free, that's your prerogative, and just like your dogged belief in Amanda's guilt I'm sure you'll take it to the grave.

However, what I was getting at was the following:


Machiavelli (16195 p. 405) wrote,
“So now you can take note about one proven point in Candace Dempsey's narrative: she reports a false fact, unsupported and not found in any source. It is evident her only source of inspiration for this piece of description was Frank Sfarzo's blog, who, commenting number of police cars and frenzy police activity, compared the arrest of Amanda Knox with the arrest of Giovanni Brusca (an obviously subjective association in Frank's style). The "parade" on a circuitous track is nothing more than an "integration" of the half info/comment by Frank, by the typical Candace style of reporting.

As you can see, that account is found in many sources, that you have so thoughtfully provided. It is not limited to Frank's blog, nor is it "a false fact, unsupported and not found in any source." Nor is it specific to who was being transported and to where, as that's really immaterial to actual point that the police made a display of themselves with frenzied activity like they'd just captured a mafia don.

That's what I meant by "They got drowned in links until it was revealed just how well sourced..." As I said, if you want to believe those sources say it was transporting Patrick Lumumba, feel free. I find that a curious reading of those sources and it seems to me logic and common sense suggests they'd do their celebrating with all their 'perps' in one basket on the way to the jail, but I'm not going to argue it with you. You can argue it with Candace if you want, she has a blog.

That wasn't my point, nor Machiavelli's, nor Halides1's for that matter. I think you merely misunderstood. :)
 
odeed,

You speak misleadingly, but thank you for linking back to my comment. I said, "I surmise that the word 'approach' should be changed to 'leave.'" (my bolding today)
What possible reason would you have to "surmise" that changing the word "approach" to "leave" of these news sources would validate Dempsey story, except for showing that you were reaching for straws in backing up the claim?

In previous comments (message #15996 from the first continuation thread), you seemed to ignore the cameraman and Elio Bertoldi as sources for the story. I wonder why.

It is not true to say that I ignored the camera man or Bertoldi as sources, when I did. Both these sources were at the Questura on the outskirts of town so they were not witness to what might have happened in Perugia itself.
 
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straws?

What possible reason would you have to "surmise" that changing the word "approach" to "leave" of these news sources would validate Dempsey story, except for showing that you were reaching for straws in backing up the claim?

odeed,

Let's start here. What do you think happened as the police left the station?
 
Sorry response was for Kaosium.


I didn’t state whether Amanda thought it could be possible just that she was told that the initial test could be a false positive.

In the spirit of links from Perugia Shock one has been posted on TJMK, maybe you can confirm or refute its authenticity?

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage92/9294.pdf

I wonder if they also told her the chances of a false positive were four in one thousand? I can't help but ponder with those odds if there was ever a false positive at all. They wanted to break her spirit, to get a real confession, yet another shock like she might be dying could have done it were she actually guilty.

At any rate it was a cruel thing to do to a girl who wouldn't even be charged with a crime for another year, and who would see that diary 'leaked' to the tabloids so she could be smeared to the four corners of the world as a worthless slut due no compassion. It sure seemed to break her up going by her diary.
 
Documents, like an autopsy report or the forth coming geneticist report describing results of examinations, another term in the context of a judicial proceeding would be evidence.

I don't think anyone's going to argue that an autopsy and geneticist's report are not evidence, but your last question to me was about the motivational report from the Guede appeal. You're not going to claim that the judge's motivational report is the same as an autopsy?
 
I wonder if they also told her the chances of a false positive were four in one thousand? I can't help but ponder with those odds if there was ever a false positive at all. They wanted to break her spirit, to get a real confession, yet another shock like she might be dying could have done it were she actually guilty.

At any rate it was a cruel thing to do to a girl who wouldn't even be charged with a crime for another year, and who would see that diary 'leaked' to the tabloids so she could be smeared to the four corners of the world as a worthless slut due no compassion. It sure seemed to break her up going by her diary.
All I can say is that I have no idea how many partners Amanda is alleged to have had, I guess I read the wrong newspapers or maybe the right ones. I doubt that Kercher’s have had a particularly pleasant time either with the media’s fascination of pouring over every single detail of Meredith’s injuries what she last ate, how she was found, when she died etc etc.
 
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I don't think anyone's going to argue that an autopsy and geneticist's report are not evidence, but your last question to me was about the motivational report from the Guede appeal. You're not going to claim that the judge's motivational report is the same as an autopsy?
What do you believe the differences are between an autopsy report and a motivational report.
 
Is it accurate to state that the video shows the examination of Meredith Kercher, yes the length of time in my opinion is immaterial, also the Carabinieri were right to sack Vanessa Sollecito and the 5 members should stand trial.

It is totally inaccurate. What was show was two single frames showing the evidence of the condition Merediths body was found. If you had been paying attention you would have already seen this when I presented it the first time.

One frame at camera time 01:46:18 shows Meredith's exposed body though it is so fuzzy that it is barely recognizable. A second frame at 01:52:42 shows the knife wound on Meredith's neck. This one is so distorted it looks more like pop art. (Stefanoni pointed out in the trial that the camera time was off by an hour so the actual time would be just before 1AM)

Lalli only made a "brief external inspection" while Meredith was still at the cottage. The full examination was carried out the next day at the morgue of the General Hospital of Perugia. So there wasn't even anything particularly exciting that could have been captured on the crime scene video. Were you perhaps expecting scenes of organs being removed?
 
Many thanks for the link regarding Amanda Knox's diary entry, in which she lists her sexual partners.

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/per...age92/9294.pdf

It was an interesting read, especially as it suggests that this information was leaked to the press via her own lawyers and family. Why do you think they did this?

Gee Colonel, I didn't seem to get that when I clicked on that link, did you send some of your troopers as forward reconnaissance to scope out the terrain first? Say maybe a year in advance or so? ;)

At any rate I heard that's just a training exercise developed by ILE to identify potential members of the Italian judiciary. If you can convince them through that simple online test that you really believe Amanda's friends and family 'leaked' Amanda's sexual history and her account of that extremely personal moment in her life to tabloid reporters and paparazzi who were smearing her wholesale then you qualify to be a senior member of the Italian judiciary with all the rank and privileges that entails. <snip>

[edit]Edited (<snip>), breach of rule 9.[/edit]

:confused:
 
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What do you believe the differences are between an autopsy report and a motivational report.

<Sigh>

An autopsy is evidence, because it is direct information about the crime.

IIUC, the motivational report is the judge's explanation of how particular conclusions have been drawn from the evidence. It cannot contain any information independent of direct evidence; any such information would have to have been invented by the authors of the report. The motivational report is therefore not evidence.

It's not clear to me why this should need to be explained to you.
 
<Sigh>

An autopsy is evidence, because it is direct information about the crime.

IIUC, the motivational report is the judge's explanation of how particular conclusions have been drawn from the evidence. It cannot contain any information independent of direct evidence; any such information would have to have been invented by the authors of the report. The motivational report is therefore not evidence.

It's not clear to me why this should need to be explained to you.
Interesting response, thank you.
 
Who had access to the diary?

Kaosium, I don't understand a word of your reply. You clearly haven't answered my question. Why did the family or lawyers leak the contents of the diary?

I presume that you are saying that they didn't. Do you have proof of this or is it your opinion?

Was the diary confiscated by the police? Who had access to it? Do you have answers? If so, I would be interested to hear them.

For so long, I was under the impression that the authorities made Knox write this list, yet here it is completely unsolicited. To whom was she writing? The tone of this diary entry suggests that she wanted others to read it. It seems reasonable to conclude that the contents would have been passed on.
 
evidence for who leaked the diary

Kaosium, I don't understand a word of your reply. You clearly haven't answered my question. Why did the family or lawyers leak the contents of the diary?

I presume that you are saying that they didn't. Do you have proof of this or is it your opinion?

Was the diary confiscated by the police? Who had access to it? Do you have answers? If so, I would be interested to hear them.

For so long, I was under the impression that the authorities made Knox write this list, yet here it is completely unsolicited. To whom was she writing? The tone of this diary entry suggests that she wanted others to read it. It seems reasonable to conclude that the contents would have been passed on.

colonelhall,

What evidence do you have that Amanda's lawyers, family, or someone associated with the defense leaked the diary?

EDT
your link does not seem to be working.
 
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