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KochGate?

I'm less concerned with the content of the call than the tone--it sounds like that governor at least is completely in bed with millionaire businessmen. How many governors are like that? How many other elected officials? I don't like that the people in charge are so chummy with special interests, particularly when it's ones with lots of money and that money is changing hands. But I guess if politicians weren't all whores they wouldn't be politicians.

I'd like to at least pretend that some government exists to serve the people. All the people, not just the millionaires.
 
WildCat said:
No, Wisconsin only requires one party to give permission to record.
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Still does not mean that it is ethical. I think that the recipient of a call should have final veto power, even in the case of a call to a maggot like Walker.

It is no more right for a left-wing advocate to do it than it is for Jeff from pumpitouit to do it.

It also produces only the same caliber of forensic evidence of governmental corruption.


Sure, Walker and the Koch brothers are pond scum, but this is inadmissible "evidence" of that fact.
 
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TragicMonkey said:
I'm less concerned with the content of the call than the tone--it sounds like that governor at least is completely in bed with millionaire businessmen. How many governors are like that? How many other elected officials?
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All of them. Being governor is :rule10 golden.
 
I've listened to two segments on the Koch brothers on NPR, including one Fresh Air article:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129425186

They are pretty scary; multi-billionaires with very strong ideas regarding taxation, regulation, and so forth. They are virulently anti-Obama, and have extensively bankrolled the Tea Party movement.
Not so much from a standpoint of being in sympathy with these folks, but more from a less-regulation and taxation standpoint for their industrial holdings. (mostly oil)
As I recall, they are essentially against public education.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I'm less concerned with the content of the call than the tone--it sounds like that governor at least is completely in bed with millionaire businessmen. How many governors are like that? How many other elected officials? I don't like that the people in charge are so chummy with special interests, particularly when it's ones with lots of money and that money is changing hands. But I guess if politicians weren't all whores they wouldn't be politicians.

I'd like to at least pretend that some government exists to serve the people. All the people, not just the millionaires.
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Well, actually the call shows that Walker doesn't even know Kochs personally. How should have Walker talked to potential campaign donor in private settings? Being polite makes sense even if the potential donor says some improper stuff.

By the way, when it comes to phone calls, here is the history of the union leader who claims to visit Obama in White House 3 times a week and calls every day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUVpJnHZNw8
 
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TragicMonkey said:
I'm less concerned with the content of the call than the tone--it sounds like that governor at least is completely in bed with millionaire businessmen. How many governors are like that? How many other elected officials? I don't like that the people in charge are so chummy with special interests, particularly when it's ones with lots of money and that money is changing hands. But I guess if politicians weren't all whores they wouldn't be politicians.

I'd like to at least pretend that some government exists to serve the people. All the people, not just the millionaires.
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He wasn't close enough to him in bed to recognize his voice.

But I would think that most politicians have people who would have much greater access to them than the average Joe. Certainly Governor Walker will not talk to me on the phone.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It can be but these Kochs pronounce it cock.
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It is one of those names that can be mispronounced many ways.

The former mayor of New York, Ed Koch, pronounced it "kotch."

I knew a couple of people with the last name that pronounced it "cook," and who insisted that that was the proper German pronunciation.
 
Unabogie said:
http://politifact.com/wisconsin/sta...sin-gov-scott-walker-says-he-campaigned-his-/
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Interesting. However, the same paper posted this:

http://politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2011/jan/01/look-scott-walkers-campaign-promises/

So while he may not have campaigned on repealing collective bargaining rights specifically, it was well known that he planned on cutting expenses and balancing the budget.

One final notable promise — a technical, but important one — could loom large over Walker's actions.

He wants state government's budget balanced according generally accepted accounting principles. If they were in place now, they would make the size of the state's budget challenge even bigger than the projected $3 billion deficit.
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In order to balance the budget, he has to cut expenses or raise taxes. What I find comical is that those protesting would be the ones to scream the loudest if he raised their taxes.
 
leftysergeant said:
Still does not mean that it is ethical. I think that the recipient of a call should have final veto power, even in the case of a call to a maggot like Walker.

It is no more right for a left-wing advocate to do it than it is for Jeff from pumpitouit to do it.

It also produces only the same caliber of forensic evidence of governmental corruption.


Sure, Walker and the Koch brothers are pond scum, but this is inadmissible "evidence" of that fact.
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How would you suggest we find out the truths about people in public office?

How would you suggest the average person combat the billions of dollars those in power have to manipulate public opinion?
 
If the recording reveals anything, it reveals in plain English, breaking the unions is not about the state's budget deficit. That is a ruse. If someone still thinks this is about the budget, they either haven't heard the conversation, or they are suffering from brain block.
 
Unabogie said:
Union workers would scream louder than teabaggers over a tax hike? Is that your final answer?
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You have a point. OK, they would scream second loudest!

The point being, this Governor ran with the promise of balancing the budget using GAAP, not the various shell games various politicians use (see: Clinton's "surplus"). There are two ways of accomplishing this - cut expenses or raise revenues. Walker chose the former. No matter which one he chose, the people protesting would complain.
 
Ok, I am a former union member. I hearby proclaim that I would be in favor of spending cuts as long as they were accompanied by tax hikes. Spending cuts across the board which included defense, farm subsidies, and other strangely ignored areas of spending, as well as tax increases for the wealthy by a lot and the rest of us by a little.

What do I win?
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
There are two ways of accomplishing this - cut expenses or raise revenues. Walker chose the former. No matter which one he chose, the people protesting would complain.
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Not necessarily. Raise taxes the way they were supposed to be raised, like by expiring Bush's tax cuts, and they wouldn't. Of course, this is a state issue, but if you increased revenue similarly (larger marginal hike for the "rich") at the state level, they wouldn't complain, at least not to the degree you seem to think.

Oh sure, you'd find a hypocrite here or there, as you do in pretty much every political issue. Nothing new there.
 
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