My argument against materialism

[punshhh]

Ah. Meaningless drivel.

Not anthropic principle then?

Please feel free to provide an "answer" to the "paradox" I have just posed to Dafydd.

 

[SusanB-M1]

Looks like he's trying to hide god in the word 'infinity'.

While reading through this thread - and having long since given up any attempt to understand most of it - I have been wondering whether Punch wishes to arrive at some conclusion. However, I think it is more likely that it he wants to just keep it going, but your point has occurred to me at times.

 

[laca]

Not anthropic principle then?

Please feel free to provide an "answer" to the "paradox" I have just posed to Dafydd.

I see you still don't understand what a paradox is. Now it seems as though you don't know how to use quotes either.

 

[punshhh]

I see you still don't understand what a paradox is. Now it seems as though you don't know how to use quotes either.

Fine lets change paradox to question.

Any answers to the question?

 

[punshhh]

While reading through this thread - and having long since given up any attempt to understand most of it - I have been wondering whether Punch wishes to arrive at some conclusion. However, I think it is more likely that it he wants to just keep it going, but your point has occurred to me at times.

There is a conclusion.

 

[punshhh]

No because pi is defined as the relationship between a circle's radius and the circumfrence of a circle.

The relationship is defined by the word, it is not intrinsic. That property of circles exists in conceptual space only in people's minds.

I accept this, however I think the value of Pi can be arrived at through measurements of spheres in the universe without prior knowledge of conceptual geometry.

 

[punshhh]

There is no nothing in nature that we can see or model.

Care to point to it?

Even there there will be the vacum energy.

I agree, I can conceive of no nothing in nature either. I am reluctant to rule it out though.

 

[laca]

Fine lets change paradox to question.

Any answers to the question?

Which one?

 

[laca]

There is a conclusion.

Care to share it with us?

 

[punshhh]

Which one?

I've edited the post to Dafydd and numbered two questions which address Dafydd's question; "how can matter have infinities?"

1; Does the universe continue into infinity?

If the answer is yes, then there is no "beyond the universe"

2; Or is the universe finite?

If the answer is yes, I would argue;

1; there is a beyond the universe or

2; its turtles all the way down(which is equivalent to a yes to question 1).

 

[punshhh]

Care to share it with us?

I would prefer to reach the conclusion through reasoned argument, if possible.

 

[Mashuna]

2; Or is the universe finite?

If the answer is yes, I would argue;

1; there is a beyond the universe or

2; its turtles all the way down(which is equivalent to a yes to question 1).

What are your arguments for there being a 'beyond' the universe or 'it's turtles all the way down'?

 

[laca]

I've edited the post to Dafydd and numbered two questions which address Dafydd's question; "how can matter have infinities?"

1; Does the universe continue into infinity?

We don't know.

If the answer is yes, then there is no "beyond the universe"

2; Or is the universe finite?

Possibly.

If the answer is yes, I would argue;

1; there is a beyond the universe or

No. It could be finite but unbounded. This has already been explained to you.

2; its turtles all the way down(which is equivalent to a yes to question 1).

How?

 

[laca]

I would prefer to reach the conclusion through reasoned argument, if possible.

Yes, we would like that too. Unfortunately, it seems that's impossible with you.

 

[punshhh]

We don't know.



Possibly.



No. It could be finite but unbounded. This has already been explained to you.



How?

Yes I know the answer is we don't know.

Could you explain "finite but unbounded" this sounds a bit like a yes to 1,
or possibly a yes to 2.

When you say unbounded does this mean it goes on for ever(infinity), or is there a boundary of some sort?

 

[punshhh]

What are your arguments for there being a 'beyond' the universe or 'it's turtles all the way down'?

My argument goes like this;

If the universe is finite(not infinite), it can be described as an object(a very large object).

If we have one object, why not two, three or an infinite number of such objects?

Hence turtles all the way down.

 

[Mashuna]

My argument goes like this;

If the universe is finite(not infinite), it can be described as an object(a very large object).

If we have one object, why not two, three or an infinite number of such objects?

Hence turtles all the way down.

But are there any currently known examples where your argument (bolded section) holds? I mean, I've got an apple, which is one object. There is more than one apple, true, but there's not an infinite number of apples. Why do you think that there would be an infinite number of universes if this one is finite?

 

[Belz...]

You explain what you mean and I'll explain what I mean.

Whatever it is you mean, you're wrong.

 

[Belz...]

Materialism should take account of metaphysics, rather than ignore it.

Impossible. It just shows how little you understand.

 

[Belz...]

I've edited the post to Dafydd and numbered two questions which address Dafydd's question; "how can matter have infinities?"

1; Does the universe continue into infinity?

If the answer is yes, then there is no "beyond the universe"

2; Or is the universe finite?

If the answer is yes, I would argue;

1; there is a beyond the universe or

2; its turtles all the way down(which is equivalent to a yes to question 1).

Already answered. Just because it's finite doesn't mean there's something beyond it. I already explained that there is NO SPACE except in the context of the universe and therefore no "beyond" at all.