DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Of course this has nothing to do with the collapses looking "suspicious".
Come on Red.
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Come on Red.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
With a statement about suspicion followed by a quote that did not support your statement.
Read your post #40.
grandmastershek
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,461
Of course Red chooses to leave out Astenah's later comments:
Thanks to cooperation of the HSNE recycling plant, I have been able to study the steel from the WTC before recycling. I have identified and saved some components of the structures that appear to have been subjected to intense fire or impact of fast moving objects...I wish I had more time to inspect steel structure and save more pieces before the steel was recycled. However, given the fact that other teams such as NIST, SEAONY and FEMA-BPAT have also done inspection and have collected the perishable data, it seems to me that collectively we may have been able to collect sufficient data. The main impediments to my work were and still are:
-Not having a copy of the engineering drawings and design and construction documents.
-Not having copies of the photographs and videotapes that various agencies might have taken during and immediately after the collapse.
Such data has already been made available to ASCE Building Performance Assessment Team. If those are also available to us, we will be able to proceed further with our research. (Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl,Before the Committee on Science of the U.S. House of Representatives March 6, 2002)
Thanks to cooperation of the HSNE recycling plant, I have been able to study the steel from the WTC before recycling. I have identified and saved some components of the structures that appear to have been subjected to intense fire or impact of fast moving objects...I wish I had more time to inspect steel structure and save more pieces before the steel was recycled. However, given the fact that other teams such as NIST, SEAONY and FEMA-BPAT have also done inspection and have collected the perishable data, it seems to me that collectively we may have been able to collect sufficient data. The main impediments to my work were and still are:
-Not having a copy of the engineering drawings and design and construction documents.
-Not having copies of the photographs and videotapes that various agencies might have taken during and immediately after the collapse.
Such data has already been made available to ASCE Building Performance Assessment Team. If those are also available to us, we will be able to proceed further with our research. (Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl,Before the Committee on Science of the U.S. House of Representatives March 6, 2002)
I came across that 4 number in a FEMA report and thought it couldn't be right. Surely more physical evidence from a crime and disaster of this magnitude would have been retained. The same FEMA report stated that numerous other pieces of steel marked for retention were accidentally scrapped as well. The last time I raised this on this forum no one could even concede that some portions of the investigation were compromised because they think that may somehow hurt their argument. And these guys call themselves intellectuals. 
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
I came across that 4 number in a FEMA report and thought it couldn't be right. Surely more physical evidence from a crime and disaster of this magnitude would have been retained. The same FEMA report stated that numerous other pieces of steel marked for retention were accidentally scrapped as well. The last time I raised this on this forum no one could even concede that some portions of the investigation were compromised because they think that may somehow hurt their argument. And these guys call themselves intellectuals.
Who are you talking to?
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
OK. For the record, I don't think the steel matters at all for my argument.
I came across that 4 number in a FEMA report and thought it couldn't be right. Surely more physical evidence from a crime and disaster of this magnitude would have been retained. The same FEMA report stated that numerous other pieces of steel marked for retention were accidentally scrapped as well. The last time I raised this on this forum no one could even concede that some portions of the investigation were compromised because they think that may somehow hurt their argument. And these guys call themselves intellectuals.
What does the steel have to do with 19 nuts taking four planes and crashing them? Nothing
911 truth makes up lies out of thin air. They make up silly claims about steel, and forget about 19 terrorists - as they weave the dumbest fantasy in history, mocking the murdered on 911.
How can something not related to the conspiracy of 19 idiots compromise anything? Explain in great detail how your fantasy works.
Can't believe the massive leap to ignorance in your post about steel.
The steel has nothing to do with who did 911, and how they did it.
The only investigation missing steel could compromise would be modes of failure, but gee whiz, engineers already know how the WTC fails because they know how it was built. What the heck is your point? 13th year of failure for 911 truth, are you joining them, or what.
What is your fantasy version of 911? Why would steel be needed to solve who did 911? Don't fly on jets if you want to keep a secret of what you did...
13 years, and 911 truth can't figure out 911, they require a new investigation, which they will not understand.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10052249#post10052249#1278
And.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278504#39
And when are you...
Is it later yet?
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What confirmation do you have that those 19 guys did it?
Where have you been? The crew, did you try to research anything before going full woo, reported by seat number, etc, who was doing what on some of the planes.
The Passengers on Flight 93 know exactly who was doing the murders, they decided to take action after they figured out 911 in minutes - and here you are 13 years later with no clue who did it.
Flight 93 terrorists identified because they left behind evidence, etc. DNA is on record.
Flight 77, all 5 terrorists, DNA is on record.
Two of the 10 terrorists at the WTC are on DNA record.
Guess what the FBI did on 911 and 912; they cleared all passengers and identified those who did 911.
Did you know the rest of the passengers on Flights 11, 175, 77 and 93, had no motive for killing 8 pilots and others to take the planes and murder thousands. But 19 did, and they were proud to kill Americans. UBL promised us in the 90s he would kill Americans... Did you miss it.
What is your fantasy version of 911 - the real story has terrorist DNA, what do you have.
Flight 93 terrorists are heard on the CVR talking, guess what language they are using? Flight 93 pilots are heard screaming as they are murdered on ATC tape - did you miss that too? Why do you try to apologize for 19 terrorists who killed thousands of Americans on 911. Stick with the event, not some anti-government BS.
911 truth BS on the WTC falls short when we get to Flights 77 and 93 - it fails the reality check.
Surely you're having a laugh and messing with me?
A building *********** free fell, and you don't think it'd be relevant to hang onto the only physical evidence they had in order to determine why? C'mon , I thought you were better than this. There's no need to ignore or make excuses for glaring deficiencies in the investigation. If everyone knew it was the 19 highjackers what then was the point of hanging onto any material at all. You obviously don't understand the significance of a steel high rise collapsing from fire and the implications that has on similar structures.
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The problem with this is that for the official story to be true, they need 100% of the story to be true. For there to be evidence of conspiracy, all I need is some percentage to be found a flat out lie.
Before I get into this I want to say that I don't believe this is some "everybody is aware and in on it" type of thing. A select handful know. Many are willing to be directed while ignorant for personal gain. The rest is left to apathy and confidence in their ability to revise history. So with that said, on to presenting you with that 1%...
The FBI stated that 19 hijackers did this. Okay. They are confident that these 19 men did it. Okay. What they used to confirm this was DNA. Okay.
The BBC is a global news organization. Its tendrils did what they were trained to do, seek pertinent information. They found one of the alleged hijackers alive and scared as hell. It did a story found here in their archives:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
The grounds they used to dismiss this story were that it was just confusion about names. They just mistakenly asked a guy who had the same name without any other correlating information and ran with it. Problem is, this doesn't jibe with the contents of the article. The man CLEARLY states that it is HIS picture which is used. The man states that he also attended flight training in the US. The man states his reason for being in the States. The man states his passport was lost (stolen?) in Denver. The article also states that another of the men has come forward due to a mistaken identity.
Revisionism, changing history to HIS-story. Suppression of dissent.
The BBC later retracted this article. Remember with web crawlers erasing it was basically impossible. Even going so far as to directly discourage questioning of the official story and forwarding the suppressive label of questioning as "conspiracy theory":
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/th..._theory_1.html
There are links within this article to reports which allegedly supersede the original story. Problem is, those reports don't talk at all about ANYTHING in the original story. They are just "on message" with the official story of the FBI. So in effect the BBC just wrote the first story out of history. Here is what they feel "supersedes" the original report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1567815.stm
Wail M Alshehri, 33, may have lived in Hollywood, Florida, and Newton, Massachusetts.
That blurb wiped the entire previous story out of history? That man identified HIS PICTURE. That man stated that he was a flight student. That man confirmed he was in the states. No follow up. Nothing. Just rewritten. Does this make sense to you?
Also, the BBC is an actually half decent news apparatus so it may have some integrity, unlike the US corporate media. Check this out at the bottom of one of the linked articles:
There is no direct evidence in the public domain linking Osama Bin Laden to the 11 September attacks.
At best the evidence is circumstantial.
Yet this is the basis for for the US and her allies waging a GLOBAL war?
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Why would the speed it fell be a reason to hold on to the steel? Wouldn't the fact it burned all day be a reason to suspect it could fail (like everyone on site thought it would)?
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Edited to properly mask profanity in quote. Please, don't quote obvious rule breaches; doing so only makes more work for the Moderation Team.
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
You have two problems with this.
(1) You think there is an "official story"
(2) You think that finding one "flat out lie" invalidates the whole story when you use your own interpretation of the story.
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You talk BS, talk of glaring deficiencies, yet they remain complete BS, and you can't produce anything of value for 911.
The WTC towers were hit by planes, it knocked out the fire systems and made it impossible to fight the fires. The impacts equal in energy of a 2,000 pound bomb knocked off insulation giving zero time for the steel to be protected. WTC 7 burned all day, and collapsed, an expected event when you don't' fight the fire.
you lost this one based on reality
You don't understand fire, and engineering, so you make up a fantasy of, glaring deficiencies you can't define, can't explain. Good luck
Then you go with a story the terrorists are alive, yet they were dead, they were really on the 4 planes, and they died. People with the same names still alive are not the same people, the BBC ran a story of BS, false, and you use it as evidence for what? MSM is in on it, remember the 911 truth claims! lol, you can't figure out 911 after 13 years, and you can't make any valid claims for your fantasy of, "glaring deficiencies".
Each of your " glaring deficiencies" is due to ignornace, lack of study, no knowledge of flying, FAA, NTSB, RADAR, fire, fire science, engineering, physics, reading comprehends, poor logic, and more.
You quote-mine stuff and make up BS about it.
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Edited to properly mask profanity in quote. Please, don't quote obvious rule breaches; doing so only makes more work for the Moderation Team.
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Does the "flat out lie" rule work for you also?
"Paloalto" would disagree: (and he thinks we're wrong).
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201274
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