The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

Kaosium said:
Were I an intrepid investigator I would be looking very closely at who was online that disastrous night with Lionking and Treehorn.
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As flattered as I am about the apparant power I weild on this forum, do you really think that my suggestion (hardly a demand) that the thread be moved to CT led to a "disaster" (snigger) of infractions, suspensions and bannings?
 
Kaosium said:
She told the court the police kept trying to get her to say Patrick's name and eventually they convinced her he did it so she did. She 'vaguely' and 'confusedly' remembered the murder, as it was put in her statements of 1:45 and 5:45 AM on November 6th.
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Any idea why the police "kept trying to get her to say" the wrong man's name? Patrick was innocent, you know, and his alibi was confirmed by the same police department that arrested Knox.

In her 05:45 statement, incidentally, Knox embellished her original claim by including a fresh allegation of being frightened of Patrick. How did the conspirators get her to do that?

I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called “Le Chic” located in Via Alessi where I work periodically.
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How do you know the conspirators did not also frame Guede?
 
lionking said:
As flattered as I am about the apparant power I weild on this forum, do you really think that my suggestion (hardly a demand) that the thread be moved to CT led to a "disaster" (snigger) of infractions, suspensions and bannings?
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Is it such a coincidence that the nicks "lionking", "stilicho", and "treehorn" all have eight letters? Think about it.

:boxedin:
 
lionking said:
As flattered as I am about the apparant power I weild on this forum, do you really think that my suggestion (hardly a demand) that the thread be moved to CT led to a "disaster" (snigger) of infractions, suspensions and bannings?
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*facepalm* :)

Don't you remember just who was online with you and Treehorn when it all got closed down? That obnoxious jackass that keeps asking you for 'evidence' and posts links to you? I was just pointing out that since then the forum has been overrun with Amanda Knox threads, which might have all been part of his 'cunning plan...' ;)

It was mainly kind of an inside joke for those who've read all the threads, and fully in line with the conspiracy theory nature of this thread mods!.

At any rate, have you ever read "Curtains" by Agatha Christie? That's the kind of 'power' you wield. A rather impressive display actually, I bow before the dark majesty of your achievements. :p
 
Kaosium said:
*facepalm* :)

Don't you remember just who was online with you and Treehorn when it all got closed down? That obnoxious jackass that keeps asking you for 'evidence' and posts links to you? I was just pointing out that since then the forum has been overrun with Amanda Knox threads, which might have all been part of his 'cunning plan...' ;)

It was mainly kind of an inside joke for those who've read all the threads, and fully in line with the conspiracy theory nature of this thread mods!.

At any rate, have you ever read "Curtains" by Agatha Christie? That's the kind of 'power' you wield. A rather impressive display actually, I bow before the dark majesty of your achievements. :p
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Apology accepted.
 
stilicho said:
Any idea why the police "kept trying to get her to say" the wrong man's name? Patrick was innocent, you know, and his alibi was confirmed by the same police department that arrested Knox.
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They suspected Patrick of being involved in the murder, they had their infamous 'black hair,' (that never showed up in evidence) the SIMS card foul-up, and then her message to him the night of the murder.

Did you notice how long it took them to release him? That despite people coming forward within days of his arrest to proffer an alibi they kept him until Rudy was captured? That Fox/Times compilation piece I've posted notes they grilled that Swiss professional for seven hours and weren't satisfied with his statement.

stilicho said:
In her 05:45 statement, incidentally, Knox embellished her original claim by including a fresh allegation of being frightened of Patrick. How did the conspirators get her to do that?
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They scared the piss out of her and then wouldn't let her go to the bathroom? Amanda believed this for a while, and she damn well ought to have been scared of someone the police thought killed her roommate.

stilicho said:
How do you know the conspirators did not also frame Guede?
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The 'conspirators' are supposedly Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele, a more motley collection you could hardly imagine for such a crime. The police couldn't really frame Guede unless they went and made a cast of his hand to make that bloody print, and as they went looking for him as a result of the forensics, instead of looking for forensics as a result of arresting him like they did with Amanda and Raffaele, it's pretty good bet they didn't try to fit him up. Also, his arrest was rather embarrassing for the police considering the 'get out of jail free' cards he'd been getting from them.
 
bobc said:
The problem I have with this is that the police didn't discover the Lumumba text until the night they interviewed and then arrested Knox. So the Lumumba CT would have to have been cooked up in the space of 30 minutes, concurrently with Amanda's interview.

This is not evidence of the police hatching a plot, it looks a lot more a suspect trying to divert the police.
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The problem I have with your problem is this: the Chief of Police of Perugia (Arturo de Felice) stated in a press conference the following morning (6th November), that Knox

"...buckled and made an admission of facts we knew to be correct"?

This statement clearly implies that the police "knew" in advance that Lumumba was involved - before they even started questioning Knox on the 5th/6th. Either that, or the Perugia Chief of Police was (for some reason) lying when he made that statement. Interesting, huh?
 
stilicho said:
Is it such a coincidence that the nicks "lionking", "stilicho", and "treehorn" all have eight letters? Think about it.

:boxedin:
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What I notice is that if you add them all together and subtract one you get 23! Do you have any idea just how sinister and suspicious the number 23 is? Why, if you take the first numeral, '2' and divide it by the second one '3' what do you get? Yikes! See what I mean? Now add them together, 2+3 and what do you get? 5! That means there must be something awful about five, too!

Numerology knows!

:p
 
Kaosium said:
...

The 'conspirators' are supposedly Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele, a more motley collection you could hardly imagine for such a crime. The police couldn't really frame Guede unless they went and made a cast of his hand to make that bloody print, and as they went looking for him as a result of the forensics, instead of looking for forensics as a result of arresting him like they did with Amanda and Raffaele, it's pretty good bet they didn't try to fit him up. Also, his arrest was rather embarrassing for the police considering the 'get out of jail free' cards he'd been getting from them.
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Just following along at home here, but I thought stilicho was asking why the [alleged-by-some] police conspirators mightn't also have framed Guede.
 
babycondor said:
Just following along at home here, but I thought stilicho was asking why the [alleged-by-some] police conspirators mightn't also have framed Guede.
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There's no real need to frame someone when their handprint - made in the victim's blood - is found next to the victim behind the locked door of the victim's bedroom. Furthermore, this type of evidence would be virtually impossible to plant (in a way that - say - non-blood DNA evidence would not be that difficult to plant if one had access to reference samples of the DNA).
 
LondonJohn said:
There's no real need to frame someone when their handprint - made in the victim's blood - is found next to the victim behind the locked door of the victim's bedroom. Furthermore, this type of evidence would be virtually impossible to plant (in a way that - say - non-blood DNA evidence would not be that difficult to plant if one had access to reference samples of the DNA).
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How odd, the police were able to plant DNA evidence on the knife and the bra clasp but couldn't plant other evidence?
 
tsig said:
How odd, the police were able to plant DNA evidence on the knife and the bra clasp but couldn't plant other evidence?
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All hail the mighty straw man!

I didn't suggest that the police actually DID plant DNA evidence. I was merely suggesting that DNA evidence is inherently easier to plant than a latent palm print made in blood (which is almost impossible to plant, given that it would require a 3-dimensional facsimile of the person's palm, which would then have to be wiped with the victim's blood before being applied to the surface in question).
 
LondonJohn said:
All hail the mighty straw man!

I didn't suggest that the police actually DID plant DNA evidence. I was merely suggesting that DNA evidence is inherently easier to plant than a latent palm print made in blood (which is almost impossible to plant, given that it would require a 3-dimensional facsimile of the person's palm, which would then have to be wiped with the victim's blood before being applied to the surface in question).
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Why are you posting this on the conspiracy theories forum if you don't believe there was a conspiracy? Just the other page, you confidently asserted that the police told Knox to name Patrick, her boss, as the killer. We have the names of at least three of those officers (plus the interpreter) on the page that Knox signed not once but twice.

Which of these four named individuals participated in the conspiracy to frame Knox?

Why are you now changing your mind and urging us to believe there was no conspiracy?

Simple question: Was there a conspiracy to frame Amanda Knox for murder?
 
LondonJohn said:
The problem I have with your problem is this: the Chief of Police of Perugia (Arturo de Felice) stated in a press conference the following morning (6th November), that Knox

"...buckled and made an admission of facts we knew to be correct"?

This statement clearly implies that the police "knew" in advance that Lumumba was involved - before they even started questioning Knox on the 5th/6th. Either that, or the Perugia Chief of Police was (for some reason) lying when he made that statement. Interesting, huh?
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It doesn't clearly imply anything of the sort. Knox provided information about a sexual assault that had been already postulated by the police. Where does Arturo de Felice state or imply that the facts they already knew included the participation of Lumumba?

This fresh allegation of yours bears a striking resemblance to the statements of the Knox/Mellas clan that led to defamation charges against them.
 
stilicho said:
Why are you posting this on the conspiracy theories forum if you don't believe there was a conspiracy?
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Uhhh...what? Does that mean that everyone who posts in any thread in the CT section believes in a conspiracy of some sort? Wooly argument.


Just the other page, you confidently asserted that the police told Knox to name Patrick, her boss, as the killer. We have the names of at least three of those officers (plus the interpreter) on the page that Knox signed not once but twice.

Which of these four named individuals participated in the conspiracy to frame Knox?
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None, to my knowledge.


Why are you now changing your mind and urging us to believe there was no conspiracy?
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Where have I changed my mind? I never stated that there WAS a conspiracy (I suggested it was a possibility), and I've certainly never "urged" anyone to believe there was no conspiracy. You're misinterpreting my argument...


Simple question: Was there a conspiracy to frame Amanda Knox for murder?
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Smple answer: I don't know, but I'm inclined to think that a miscarriage of justice was more down to incompetence, malpractice and tunnel vision than to the nasty c-word. Does that make my position any clearer?
 
stilicho said:
It doesn't clearly imply anything of the sort. Knox provided information about a sexual assault that had been already postulated by the police. Where does Arturo de Felice state or imply that the facts they already knew included the participation of Lumumba?

This fresh allegation of yours bears a striking resemblance to the statements of the Knox/Mellas clan that led to defamation charges against them.
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It implies exactly that.

What makes you think that de Felice's interpretation of Knox's "version of events" is narrowly restricted to the part about sexual assault? Any objective observer would clearly conclude that the "version of events that we knew to be correct" was that Knox and Lumumba (and probably also Sollecito) met up and went to the girls' cottage, where Lumumba killed Meredith, and Knox and Sollecito were parties to the crime and the subsequent cover-up. In the same press conference, de Felice even announced how and why the murder had occurred: "All three participated in this crime. The motive was sexual and the victim rebelled". High professionalism indeed!

In addition, not only the police, but also the entire nation and half the world, knew that Meredith had been sexually assaulted by the 5th November - the police had very helpfully and professionally leaked this information to the media. So this is another reason why the sexual assault alone clearly can't be the limit of what de Felice was referring to.
 
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