Muslim researcher explains how 9/11 was made

[Sam.I.Am]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

In fact, the only technology which could be used to make those planes hit so precisely their targets is “tomahawk missile system” installed inside the plane and made able to control the planes.

I got this far and I face palmed so hard that I almost gave myself a concussion.

Mehmetin, without going to far into the details let me tell you that the main component of the guidance system in a modern Tomahawk is already installed in commercial aircraft, automobiles, private watercraft and is even available in hand held units sold over the counter at your local Radio Shack and has been since before 9/11. It's called GPS (Global Positioning System). Before that, back in the 1970's, when there was no GPS, the original missile design used a RADAR system called TerCon Mapping (Terrain Contour) that used highly accurate (and classified at the time) maps stored in its memory system and used the downwards reading TerCon RADAR to read and compare the ground below to see if they matched the maps in memory. It was nowhere near as accurate as GPS but was more accurate than just using gyros alone.

In other words you not only have no idea what you're talking about but even some very light research on the subject would've prevented yourself from embarrassing yourself by showing that your ignorance on some very basic core components of your own theories are nowhere near as nefarious as you would like to make them out to be.

 

[Zep]

Mehmet, let me just ask: Are you prepared to change your mind at all if any of your evidence is fully debunked?

With no doubt I am ready to change my opinion if all my evidence are debunked.

Well so far, all the evidence you have produced has been debunked. So you had better be prepared to change your mind. Unless you have more we haven't seen yet that is somewhat better quality?

All other your arguments are not technical, you just make speculation on my work, so I did not answer.

No, I commented on your so-called evidence you pointed me to. There's nothing to debunk - all of it is from your own imagination, not from fact. I suspect you won't answer because you can't answer. So you are ignoring the gaping holes appearing around you.

Let's be short and precise and scientific and logical.

We have been. Perhaps you should start doing this yourself. I did point out you needed to do this right at the start, didn't I.


Incidentally, many prominent Muslims around the world in the years since 9-11 have roundly condemned the actions of the 9-11 hijackers and their masters as being completely against the teachings of Islam. We were told they made significant errors in their religious reasoning. Not being Muslim myself, I can't refute that.

But I have read the Koran (it's a very thoughtful book), and I don't recall reading anywhere about advocating bloody suicide missions in aircraft and killing innocents in the process. So I think you will find many here who do not condemn Islam or Muslims particularly because of 9-11.

Perhaps your anger is completely misplaced? Have you considered that the reality is the perpetrators of 9-11 were just lawless renegades who thought they were Muslim but were very badly misled by others who used them for their own evil purposes?

 

[Dave Rogers]

You are right, that’s a key point, but it’s consistent with one team made operation.

The burden of proof is still on you to demonstrate that it's inconsistent with the type of operation indicated by all the evidence, i.e. a hijack/manned missile attack. It's completely irrelevant that you claim it's consistent with other types of operation.

In fact, the only technology which could be used to make those planes hit so precisely their targets is “tomahawk missile system” installed inside the plane and made able to control the planes.

Not true; a manual control system operated by a barely competent pilot is easily capable of hitting all three targets that were actually hit with the accuracy that they were hit. This includes, of course, the factor that the pilots were sufficiently incompetent that they nearly missed WTC2 and nearly hit the lawn before hitting the Pentagon. Nothing about the second and third attacks implies precision.

That implies the missile (the plane) is able to find its target without human intervention. Due to the nature of the system, that operation of “finding its target” should be made without human intervention. That means the team work finishes some minutes before the impact. That’s what we see in all cases.

Agan, Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy, with a side order of Affirming the Consequent.

You may be right if they were able to foresee the delay times of the planes, then they can make plans and decide to make such successive hijacks (even if there is no reason for them to make the hijacks successive). But they are unable to foresee the delays of each plane.

And especially about the last plane, there is a huge problem: It was delayed by 41 minutes. As they were delayed, the team inside that plane should think they are delayed out of the plans and they should hijack the plane as soon as possible. Let’s say within 15 minutes, like the first plane. But they waited 53 minutes before takeover the plane, the longest time. And by coincidence, that happened at 9:35; 3 minutes before the impact of the Pentagon at 9:38.

Bare assertion fallacy, and appeal to your own authority. You actually know nothing about how the hijackers determined when to take over the planes, and nor does anybody else. Your opinion is that they should have hijacked flight 93 as soon as possible, but that's just your opinion; to give it any weight whatsoever would be cultural stereotyping.

That’s we agree. Even if using statistical data we can give some characteristics to the evil doing in each community, but that does not mean other type of evil actions are impossible in specific community.

The evidence is clear that 19 angry young men from Moslem communities carried out the 9/11 attacks. They're not you, and their interpretation of Islam is not yours. You don't need to defend them.

ETA: Having read the thread further, I see that you consider Jewishness to be evidence of wrongdoing, and you appear to define a Jew as anyone who disagrees with you. In the light of that, please disregard anything in the above that appears suggestive of symathy or respect for your point of view.

Dave

 

[Oystein]

mehmetin,

what is your material evidence that Pete Zalewski is a Jew?
What is your material evidence that Zdenek Bazant is a Jew?

What is your material evidence for any wrongdoing by Mr. Zalewski?
Whar are your logical arguments to refute Mr. Bazant, who is one of the world-leading professors of Structural Engineering?


I assume that you hold yourself to the same standards that you want to hold us to, namely that you only accept material evidence and logic as arguments to support your claims.
I expect that you remove from your presentation every claim that you have no material evidence or compelling logic for.
I also expect that you retract your claims about Zalewski and Bazant, if you can't provide material evidence or compelling logic for them.

 

[Carll68]

C'Mon!

Give this man a break..he has come here well prepared with an abundance of iron clad evidence the likes of which we have never seen before. Cut him some slack and listen to his exceptional and factual observations.







HaHa..Only kidding.


But, here is a direct question for a Muslim researcher: In the big picture, What do you propose would change had the pilots not been killed in grotesque cowardly fashion by muslim extremeists, and entered the hijack code? I mean, this is one of your cornerstones for your 'dem nastys joos' being in on it argument, so, surely you have thought this through.

 

[Sunstealer]

Not true; a manual control system operated by a barely competent pilot is easily capable of hitting all three targets that were actually hit with the accuracy that they were hit.

Makes me wonder how pilots manage to land aircraft on a narrow strip of tarmac. I think it must be impossible without a tomahawk guidance system. Has our brave truther uncovered the second greatest scam in history after Homer Simpson discovered that all truck drivers don't actually drive any more because their rigs all have a little box with a flashing red light that guides and drives the truck?

 

[mehmetin]

Even if that were true, it wasn't a 'cruise missile' that was acting like that. It was a commercial airliner being flown by crazy scumbags who didn’t care how there flying looked to those watching on tv/youtube.

This is humour! There were no crazy scumbags. There was an on board automated system adapted from a Tomahawk control system.

To humour your assertion that these aircraft where installed with "tomahawk systems", please advise how that "installed system" can "act exactly like that" whilst installed in a larger, heavier, wider, longer body?

That’s right; they had to setup the proportional/integral gain parameters. The mass and dimensions of the plane are too much different from small tomahawk missile ones. I let you guess when they made that setup? Your abilities look enough good to discover that yourself.

 

[mehmetin]

mehmetin:

I put it to you that you began with the assumption that Muslims were not responsible for the 9/11 attacks and then worked your way backwards to attempt to spin the evidence in favor of your belief. I posit that your motivation for said actions were one or more of the following:

1. The very idea that fellow Muslims could be responsible for such a vicious, calculated crime is so unimaginably shameful to you that it is more that your psyche can bear, therefore you simply dismiss the idea outright.

2. Your fear that a group of Muslims being branded as being responsible for the most infamous act of terrorism in history will put the religion of Islam and its adherents in a bad light and that said adherents will become the victims of abuse and scorn by the rest of the world. Modern history has shown that such fears aren't entirely unfounded, but that is no excuse for denying a harsh, unpleasant truth.

3. Your hatred and mistrust for the ethnoreligious group known as the Jewish people which you already felt well before 9/11/2001.

4. Your hatred and mistrust for the US Government, partly because their support for Israel.

Debunk that

Fully wrong. I waited more than one year USA bring the evidence. I was always doubtful, but some times I was near to believe the official story. On end of 2002I heard about Meyssan analysed his arguments, find at least ONE true argument I began the investigation. Quickly I gathered time data and drawn the time graphic proving ONE team made the events. Then I had to discover all other evidences and explain all behavior of the planes, the towers, Pentagon, ...

At first I believed Bush administration did the strikes, up to mid 2007. At that time I came to the theory of Bazant. That began the involvement of Israelis. But quickly many Jews appeared to be complicit with the perpetrators.

Thanks to keep all hatred for yoruself. I am a human, equal to all humans on teh Earth.

 

[mehmetin]

This is FALSE.

By the time the airlines published list of victims (and contacted their relatives), the hijackers were already identified, it's just that not all 19 identifications were certain at the time for the purpose of convicting someone in court.

It is not up to you to declare FALSE claims in your presentation "meaningless". Obviously, every FALSE claim you make lowers your credibility.

However, could you explain why meaningless small details are included in your presentation? Would that not make it a bad presentation, even if it weren't FALSE?

The first part of my power point file named "anomalies" is just suspicious questions about the official stroy. I do not use these arguments to prove my claims. These are not important for me, they can be true or wrong, it's meaningless to discuss about them. They only shows that the evidence supporting the official story are too weak.

 

[uke2se]

This is humour! There were no crazy scumbags. There was an on board automated system adapted from a Tomahawk control system.

Please dazzle us with your material evidence of this. Humor indeed.

That’s right; they had to setup the proportional/integral gain parameters. The mass and dimensions of the plane are too much different from small tomahawk missile ones. I let you guess when they made that setup? Your abilities look enough good to discover that yourself.

Again, please entertain us with your material evidence. Don't ask us to visit your website for evidence. Post it here.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed incivility

 

[uke2se]

Fully wrong. I waited more than one year USA bring the evidence. I was always doubtful, but some times I was near to believe the official story. On end of 2002I heard about Meyssan analysed his arguments, find at least ONE true argument I began the investigation. Quickly I gathered time data and drawn the time graphic proving ONE team made the events. Then I had to discover all other evidences and explain all behavior of the planes, the towers, Pentagon, ...

You mean the data that has proved that more than one team carried out the attack? You know, the data which we've been discussing in this thread?

At first I believed Bush administration did the strikes, up to mid 2007. At that time I came to the theory of Bazant. That began the involvement of Israelis. But quickly many Jews appeared to be complicit with the perpetrators.

Please provide material evidence of Jewish involvement in the 9/11 attacks. No pussy-footing please. Dazzle us with your bigoted brilliance.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed personal attack

 

[uke2se]

The first part of my power point file named "anomalies" is just suspicious questions about the official stroy. I do not use these arguments to prove my claims. These are not important for me, they can be true or wrong, it's meaningless to discuss about them. They only shows that the evidence supporting the official story are too weak.

1. They are false no matter how insignificant, and thus they destroy whatever little credibility you retained.

2. If they aren't important, why do you keep unimportant false claims on your website?

 

[mehmetin]

mehmetin,

on page 1 of this thread, I made 5 posts that addressed your opening post and your presentation in great detail, asking you specific questions and giving you specific evidence that proves every claim you made on the referred pages is FALSE. I am talking about posts numbers...
19
22
24
25
29

I then made 1 post (#32) that I started with "I am running out of time now", so there I did not provide the facts and the links to prove you wrong.

Predictably, you only replied to #32, and ignored all the questions and evidence in 19, 22, 24, 25 and 29.

Please be so kind and reply to these also. And please do so sincerely.
Thanks.

I won’t repeat all arguments to everybody.

Post 19:
- Whay the succession of the hijacks is impossible was explained. If you read my ppt file you’ll understand too.
- Why material was planted in the B737 that hit the Pentagon is explained too.
- The DNA identification of AA77 passengers did not show any terrorist (this is also explained).
- The presence of radio explosives and their placement is explained in my ppt file slides 44 - 54.1.
- Bush and Mossad’s involvement is explained in section “Disinformation and Perpetrators” of my web site.

Posts 22 & 24:
The anomalies section of my web site is just for information. It’s not the main claim. Useless to discuss it before understanding how the events were made.

Post 25:
These are my claims that I explain in the following slides. The evidences are given there. Why should I repeat them? No reason.

Post 29: Here you have some arguments, but you have no logics. You are just making non supported claims. You should think a little bit more. Any way here is your post:

7.1 End of 2002...

Your claim: "this high temperature explosion (color) proves the presence of a bomb"
Fact: The parking lot camera was not adjusted for the brightness of fires of any kind. The fire ball is simply overexposed, rendering any color just plain white
Material evidence: Any overexposed photograph of bright colors (I could attach sample photos from my own camera if you don't understand what I mean)

I considered such over exposition, but nothing can explain such brightness difference.

8-How could the US government make the strikes?

Your claim: (You don't actually make any, just imagination)
Fact: (No need to counter pure imagination with facts.
Material evidence: (You provide none)

In the following slides you’ll find the evidence. I’ll not give all evidence inside one single slide!

9-One team / 4 teams
Fact: Your column for "4 teams" accurately describes what actually happened: 4 teams acted independently of each other once their plane tickets were booked. They didn't contact each other during the flights. That's why the flights and hijacks overlapped each other and took different times.
Material evidence: You provide it yourself in the following pages, in particular page 13.

These aspects were explained. The small overlap is just the time duration when one plane was flying near its target in autonomous operation, the team can begin to control the next one. That happened in all planes. (This is a repeat in that thread.)

13-Timeline graphic and conclusions

Your claim: "All hijacks were made sequentially, one plane at a time!"
Fact: This is to be expected. However, for some minutes at a time, flights 11 and 175 were hijacked simultaneously. The same is true for 175 and 77, and for 77 and 93. So actually two planes at a time were hijacked
Material evidence: Included in your own graph

Your claim: "Before deviating from its flight route, each plane waited for the previous plane to be put on target"
Fact: This is wrong in all 3 cases:
- Flight 175 deviated before 11 was put into target, it didn't wait
- Flight 77 deviated before 175 was put into target, it didn't wait
- Flight 93 deviated before 77 was put into target, it didn't wait
Material evidence: Included in your own graph on that page

Your claim: "The deviation of any plane was dependent on the situation of the previous plane"
Fact: Refuted by the falseness two previous claims
Material evidence: See above.

14-CONCLUSION

Your claim: "The timeline ... is fully consistent with a central control ... by ONE TEAM"
Fact: While it may be fully consistent with one team, it is also connsistent with 4 teams, and there exists neither material evidence nor any compelling logic why one team should be preferred. In fact, you have failed to even tell us how one team would have done the coordinating - what technology was used?
Material evidence: See page 13.

Your claim: "This timeline is impossible to make by four different teams"
Fact: Wrong. Each hijacking was done according to the same plan, differing only slightly in timing. There is no reason to speculate about any meaning of the timing between planes, except that all take-offs took place within less than an hour. All hijacks happened within 1:25 hours, the same is about true for all crashs. This is to be expected when all 4 teams acted according to the same general plan for hijacking a plane.
There exists no logic or material problem that would make the timeline "impossible".
Material evidence: None required.

Four different teams can not make such succession, each deviation beginning minutes before the precedent ends. That’s the conclusion of the slide 9.

 

[Carll68]

Tap
Tap
Tap

Anyone there? Is this thing on?

Tell me, since the pilots not entering the hijack code is the crux of, and imperative to, your delusion, er, argument....explain what you think would have changed if the pilots would have entered this code?

 

[mehmetin]

The pilots who weren't killed before they could react obviously would have been trying to defend themselves. If you were a pilot and being attacked would your priority be 1) save your life OR 2) punch the hijack code on the transponder?

If you are a hijacker, what would you do? Immediately attack the pilots, cut their throats and put blood everywhere by risking some malfunction in some instruments? Or at first ask them to leave their seat? Sure, ask them to leave their seat. That happened in all hijacks. So your imagination is too much flawed?

They might not have even remembered the code it had been many years since the last US plane was hijacked and stress adversely affects memory



Why is this suspicious? Obviously the hijacking would have started after one radio communication and before another. I don't think understands what your point it.

Except if the time gap between these two communications is only 16 seconds and that the pilots changed from “totally normal” operation to “totally silent” operation! That coincidence is suspicious. The reason to give these two orders at that moment is also not explained. Were there really any reason for these two successive orders? I am doubtful.

 

[Carll68]

..And, again, if they entered these codes...how would this have changed the events???????

 

[uke2se]

If you are a hijacker, what would you do? Immediately attack the pilots, cut their throats and put blood everywhere by risking some malfunction in some instruments? Or at first ask them to leave their seat? Sure, ask them to leave their seat. That happened in all hijacks. So your imagination is too much flawed?

If I was a rabid fundamentalist Muslim hijacker, I would have attacked and overpowered the pilots as quickly as possible to prevent them from sending a distress call or possibly turn the situation around - you know, exactly like the rabid fundamentalist Muslim hijackers did on 9/11.

 

[240-185]

Oh dear.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed personal attack

[O]n a french-speaking canadiam skeptical forum, we had a discussion with him, and it appears that:

‒ He believes that there was hypnotic gas which was spread into the airplanes. Evidence? A James Bond movie. Because this technology was known.
‒ He believes that Dylan Avery & Co., Judy Wood and Zdenek Bazant have narrow links with Israel.
‒ He stills states that "muslims didn't do 9/11", which is the biggest strawman I've ever seen.
‒ He believes KSM is a jew.
‒ He states that the video when we see Mohamed Atta registering his flight was faked by Zionists.
‒ He states that all the confessional videos were faked by Zionists.
‒ He states that "Tim Donald Timmermann" is a jew because Timmermann is a common family name in Israel.
‒ And so on.

mehmetin,

what is your material evidence that Pete Zalewski is a Jew?
What is your material evidence that Zdenek Bazant is a Jew?

Because "Zalewski" sounds jewish for mehmetin.
Because "Zdenek" sounds jewish for mehmetin too.

He spots jews everywhere just by guessing. He was guessing so much he got banned from the forum I mentioned above. And he will deny to be antisemitic despite all that crap.

 

[uke2se]

Why are you seeing hatred everywhere?

I'm not. I am seeing hatred and bigotry coming from you.

I am just making logical investigation and telling my conclusions.

No, you aren't. You are making up stuff based on no evidence. This is normally called lying.

That's all.

No, that's not all. You are also accusing innocent people of committing mass murder and apologizing for the real culprits. This is morally reprehensible.

I am based on material evidence, not on hatred.

No you aren't. You haven't provided a single iota of material evidence in this entire thread, so you can drop that lie right now because nobody's buying it.

 

[Carll68]

If I was a rabid fundamentalist Muslim hijacker, I would have attacked and overpowered the pilots as quickly as possible to prevent them from sending a distress call or possibly turn the situation around - you know, exactly like the rabid fundamentalist Muslim hijackers did on 9/11.

The events of the day would have been altered __________________________________once the distress code was entered because__________________________.?

Still waiting on him to fill in these easy blanks ....

Gee, if I had only dialed 9-1-1 after the man started shooting me, I might still be alive today.........