Age of Consent and Statutory Rape

I dunno. I Googled that phrase and didn't come up with a definition. Can you help?

The "lunatic" is a deliberate pejorative used to flag the subset of relativists who are in my view substantially irrational, and relativists in the broad and pejorative sense are those people who employ arguments of the form "there is a degree of subjectivity with regard to X, so any view is as good as any other".

You are citing individual objective measurements with the implication that there is some sort of measurement that looks at all of these things to generate a score. Seems rather silly to me, but I'd love to see the approach.

That's not what I'm implying, and if you are interested in epidemiological research I suggest you go educate yourself. I'm not in the mood to be your tutor today.

So, please support your claim and show us the rates of the above mentioned issues in regards to the age at which sexual relations were started.

Dig it up yourself if you are seriously contesting the matter. In this thread I'm not. I'm taking it for granted that there are higher rates of adverse outcomes amongst people who start having sex below the age of fifteen and seeing what follows. If you don't accept that premise then just don't accept my conclusions, it won't chap my backside any.
 
The "lunatic" is a deliberate pejorative used to flag the subset of relativists who are in my view substantially irrational, and relativists in the broad and pejorative sense are those people who employ arguments of the form "there is a degree of subjectivity with regard to X, so any view is as good as any other".
Well, that's certainly not me. Feel free to review my posting history in a variety threads but most especially ones regarding the First Amendment. I have no problems at all with drawing a line on a continuum. Hell, even within this thread I have several times referred to the necessity of making judgments.

That's not what I'm implying, and if you are interested in epidemiological research I suggest you go educate yourself. I'm not in the mood to be your tutor today.
Oh, c'mon now, not that tired old line. You've been here for a while. If you make a claim about research showing something, it's up to you to provide links to the research. I, for one, try to post the links when I make the claim so that nobody has to ask me to provide it later. It also helps me make sure that my recollection is correct.

Dig it up yourself if you are seriously contesting the matter. In this thread I'm not. I'm taking it for granted that there are higher rates of adverse outcomes amongst people who start having sex below the age of fifteen and seeing what follows. If you don't accept that premise then just don't accept my conclusions, it won't chap my backside any.
What do you mean you are taking it for granted? Do you know this for a fact or not?
 
What do you mean you are taking it for granted? Do you know this for a fact or not?

I've read a relevant paper on the topic that seemed to have all the proper controls (and it took a heck of a lot of searching since most research on the topic is of appallingly poor quality), but I can't put my hands on it at present. If you don't believe me, I'm not unduly concerned. I'm not going to defend the claim. Believe it or don't.
 
I've read a relevant paper on the topic that seemed to have all the proper controls (and it took a heck of a lot of searching since most research on the topic is of appallingly poor quality), but I can't put my hands on it at present. If you don't believe me, I'm not unduly concerned. I'm not going to defend the claim. Believe it or don't.
That's helpful. Thanks.

Can you at least explain how they could determine the suicide rates for people who started having sex before age 15? I mean, it's not like they could ask them after the fact. Was this some sort of study that was run for years tracking people?
 
That's helpful. Thanks.

Can you at least explain how they could determine the suicide rates for people who started having sex before age 15? I mean, it's not like they could ask them after the fact. Was this some sort of study that was run for years tracking people?

Good question.

I know there were several poorly-controlled longitudinal studies that purported to show a correlation between early sex and suicide, but since they didn't control for obvious confounding factors they didn't prove anything.

I recall the one good study I found being a one-off survey rather than a longitudinal study, which does indeed raise the question of how the heck they could have known about suicide rates. Now you bring the question up, I think it's reasonably likely that the good study didn't mention suicide, only depression, and that I conflated that result with the previously mentioned dodgy longitudinal studies.

So thanks for asking - I think it's more likely than not I had that bit wrong.
 
Good question.

I know there were several poorly-controlled longitudinal studies that purported to show a correlation between early sex and suicide, but since they didn't control for obvious confounding factors they didn't prove anything.

I recall the one good study I found being a one-off survey rather than a longitudinal study, which does indeed raise the question of how the heck they could have known about suicide rates. Now you bring the question up, I think it's reasonably likely that the good study didn't mention suicide, only depression, and that I conflated that result with the previously mentioned dodgy longitudinal studies.

So thanks for asking - I think it's more likely than not I had that bit wrong.

I don't recall seeing you in the threads discussing medical studies, so I have no idea how well you evaluate them. I have read hundreds. The first burden is going to be establishing a statistically significant correlation that remains after looking at confounding factors. That's hard enough as it is.

Once you get past that, you have to start looking at causation. That's going to be a really tough one. I mean, how do you tie sex at a young age to (say) lower income? One way, of course, is simple statistics in that the more often you have sex, the more likely you are to become a parent. If you lack the resources to get protection, you're more likely to get pregnant. Combine the two and you will see a higher rate of pregnancy among those who start having sex at a younger age.

But is the sex itself the problem? Not really. It's the responsibility of having a baby that lowers income. So, maybe you pull out those who get pregnant before (say) age 25. Now you can more closely see the direct effect of early sex on income. Does the discrepancy remain?

Ah, but we can't separate pregnancy. That's not fair! It's a risk of sex. It's kind of a gray area, and it will depend on the question you're asking. In this case we're talking about age of consent, mostly in respect to adults having sex with minors. One could make the argument that having an adult in the equation increases the likelihood of protection being used. Certainly it's easier for an adult to buy condoms than a kid, right? So if we look at the numbers another way, maybe those minors who have sex are better off having sex with adults because their life outcomes are better.

So, your simple, unsupported statement doesn't really offer much of value at all without the data.
 
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I don't recall seeing you in the threads discussing medical studies, so I have no idea how well you evaluate them. I have read hundreds. The first burden is going to be establishing a statistically significant correlation that remains after looking at confounding factors. That's hard enough as it is.

Once you get past that, you have to start looking at causation. That's going to be a really tough one. I mean, how do you tie sex at a young age to (say) lower income? One way, of course, is simple statistics in that the more often you have sex, the more likely you are to become a parent. If you lack the resources to get protection, you're more likely to get pregnant. Combine the two and you will see a higher rate of pregnancy among those who start having sex at a younger age.

But is the sex itself the problem? Not really. It's the responsibility of having a baby that lowers income. So, maybe you pull out those who get pregnant before (say) age 25. Now you can more closely see the direct effect of early sex on income. Does the discrepancy remain?

Ah, but we can't separate pregnancy. That's not fair! It's a risk of sex. It's kind of a gray area, and it will depend on the question you're asking. In this case we're talking about age of consent, mostly in respect to adults having sex with minors. One could make the argument that having an adult in the equation increases the likelihood of protection being used. Certainly it's easier for an adult to buy condoms than a kid, right? So if we look at the numbers another way, maybe those minors who have sex are better off having sex with adults because their life outcomes are better.

So, your simple, unsupported statement doesn't really offer much of value at all without the data.

Thanks for the Intro To Stats content, but you aren't telling me anything I don't already know. According to the study I saw the effect remained statistically significant even if you separate out the ones who get pregnant completely.

I have no idea about the causative mechanism, and the fact that there is no hypothesis I know of with evidence to support it makes me think that we may have missed a confounding factor or it could just be that the one properly conducted study's results were a fluke. However I sure as heck scratched my head over the result before concluding that no, I just couldn't see an obviously relevant confounding factor they hadn't accounted for.

Maybe it's just a fact about human psychology that people develop poorly if they spend their early years in sexual relationships where the other person has too much of a power advantage. Maybe it's just a fact about the men who are up for such relationships in modern society that they are bad partners who exert a negative influence. Maybe it's just that people having sex don't work as hard at school. I don't think anybody knows, although lots of people will profess great certainty based on armchair psychology.
 
Thanks for the Intro To Stats content, but you aren't telling me anything I don't already know. According to the study I saw the effect remained statistically significant even if you separate out the ones who get pregnant completely.
As opposed to those who get pregnant incompletely? :D

So, you're saying that this study you read compared people who were sexually active before age 15 with those who were not and managed to control for all possible confounding factors to determine that there was a statistically significant difference in income levels with those who were sexually active at a younger age making less money? Do you recall the cut-off p-value? What was the difference in income? Was it mean or median?

It's a crying shame that you can't actually produce the study.

I have no idea about the causative mechanism, and the fact that there is no hypothesis I know of with evidence to support it makes me think that we may have missed a confounding factor or it could just be that the one properly conducted study's results were a fluke. However I sure as heck scratched my head over the result before concluding that no, I just couldn't see an obviously relevant confounding factor they hadn't accounted for.
So, they looked at parental income? Quality of high school? Parental education? Adjusted for geographic differences in income? Age brackets?


Maybe it's just a fact about human psychology that people develop poorly if they spend their early years in sexual relationships where the other person has too much of a power advantage.
Whoa there. Now you're saying they looked at the age of the partner as well?

Maybe it's just a fact about the men who are up for such relationships in modern society that they are bad partners who exert a negative influence.
Whoa. We're looking at young women with older men?

Maybe it's just that people having sex don't work as hard at school. I don't think anybody knows, although lots of people will profess great certainty based on armchair psychology.
Wait. Now we're back to just any age partner?
 
But 13 dude, really? REALLY? Have you been around 13 year olds lately? I volunteer with them so I'm around a lot of 13 year olds, and they don't even look remotely like adults to me, even the most physically mature among them. They look like kids. And even the most mature 13 year olds I know still ACT like little kids. If I had ever in my life met a single 13 year old that didn't look, think, act, and sound like a child, I might agree with you. But I never have. Thinking you're ready to have sex and risk pregnancy, STDs, etc is one thing (which can happen even with protection, let's remember). Actually being able to have that cognitive ability and fully comprehending the ramifications for your actions is quite another.

I think back to when I was 13. I was a straight A student, yet I was completely clueless about many things. Especially long term consequences.
 
I think back to when I was 13. I was a straight A student, yet I was completely clueless about many things. Especially long term consequences.

When I was 13, if I'd been given the opportunity, I'd definitely have had sex. In fact when I was 13 it's about all I really thought about. (Okay, that's an exaggeration).

I'm eternally thankful that none of those 13 year old girls were interested in me, because I definitely should not have had sex at that age, and I am glad I didn't.
 
Sorry, but that's not close to my point at all. My point is simple:

Ostensibly for some reason, we have decided that below a certain age a person cannot consent to sex and above that age they can (barring exceptions like mental retardation). Ostensibly there is some sort of criteria we've examined to say that a sufficient percentage of people above that age meet those criteria.

Important: I haven't said what those criteria are except that they exist.

So, my premise is simply that we apply those criteria on a case by case basis just like we do in juvenile criminal court and family court. The line will surely move because it's subjective. I don't care about that - it's unavoidable.

What I care about are the people whose lives are wrecked by sex crime convictions and those younger persons who are treated like they are property to be tended.

The sex hang-up tangent is my way of demonstrating that much of the argument for not even attempting the above is due to emotional and moral issues about sex itself. People aren't trying to find a way to make it work. They are simply looking for ways to reject it. One of those ways is the alleged harm, for which I have seen no evidence.

Yes, it actually is quite close to your point. If you're concerned about society magically and arbitrarily coming up with a point of distinction that separates mature from immature and forbidding life decisions based on that point of distinction, then a "maturity test" doesn't solve that issue at all. The concept is laughable. Define maturity without using an arbitrary restraint set by societal acceptance. You're literally saying "society shouldn't decide what is mature on average, judges should do it on a case by case basis." That's a completely arbitrary distinction, and I see little to no point to it. All you'd have is a regression toward the mean anyway, and you're still hung up on the point of having someone decide what is and isn't mature enough to have sex.

You can couch your argument in enlightening Puritan society all you want, but it really just boils down to you don't think that the commonly accepted age of distinction is good enough, and you think there should be an equally arbitrary distinction applied on a case-by-case basis.
 
Yes, it actually is quite close to your point. If you're concerned about society magically and arbitrarily coming up with a point of distinction that separates mature from immature and forbidding life decisions based on that point of distinction, then a "maturity test" doesn't solve that issue at all.
You need to spend more effort trying to understand what I'm saying and less effort trying to tell me what I mean. I hear what you think I'm saying, and I'm telling you it's wrong. The maturity test already exists. That's what states/countries apply when they pick an age of consent. They don't throw darts - they debate what's needed for consent and make a judgment about at what age people have the necessary skills. It's not arbitrary at all, and I never said it was. Never. Not once.

The concept is laughable. Define maturity without using an arbitrary restraint set by societal acceptance.
It's laughable? Really? It's part of the Kent Factors for juvenile court. It's what judges do in family court. And when somebody is over the age of consent, a case can still be made that they lacked the mental capacity to consent.

I am not suggesting anything that isn't already done in the courts. I'm suggesting that it be applied in age of consent cases.

If you choose to reply, how about presenting your own position rather than constructing a straw man and laughing it your handiwork?
 
You need to spend more effort trying to understand what I'm saying and less effort trying to tell me what I mean. I hear what you think I'm saying, and I'm telling you it's wrong. The maturity test already exists. That's what states/countries apply when they pick an age of consent. They don't throw darts - they debate what's needed for consent and make a judgment about at what age people have the necessary skills. It's not arbitrary at all, and I never said it was. Never. Not once.

You didn't say it was arbitrary. I did. Your point is that age of consent laws are not justified since they exclude portions of the population (namely, people 15 and under in most states) from engaging in sexual activity, which you view as a fundamental right, correct? If this is not your view, please clear it up for me.


It's laughable? Really? It's part of the Kent Factors for juvenile court. It's what judges do in family court. And when somebody is over the age of consent, a case can still be made that they lacked the mental capacity to consent.

I am not suggesting anything that isn't already done in the courts. I'm suggesting that it be applied in age of consent cases.

If you choose to reply, how about presenting your own position rather than constructing a straw man and laughing it your handiwork?

My own position is that a maturity test and the inherent judgment that follows is just as arbitrary of a distinction as an age of consent, and still relies on a social construct to make a judgment call as to the maturity of the individual.

I grew up in West Virginia. I saw 13-year-olds (13-years-old?) get pregnant. They thought they were ready, and would tell anyone as much. Frankly, they weren't. There were only 3 of them that I knew, but it's a larger population to deal with than most people would be familiar with, I'm willing to wager. 2 of them had to have abortions because they simply could not have the child. The last had developed enough physically to safely have child, which miscarried.

Like I said, that's a small number of girls to have known who had experienced that, and I don't pretend to have the statistics on the outcomes of extreme-young-life pregnancies. What I can say is that at that age, everyone is in a hurry to grow up. I would have consented to sex with a 25-year-old woman when I was 13 in a heartbeat. Pretty much every male (and ostensibly female--obviously consenting to sex with an older man in that scenario--but at 13, I didn't know much about the sexual proclivities of the girls in my class) I knew would have. And most likely, we could show that we knew the consequences of our actions. I knew at 13 that girls got pregnant from sex. That wouldn't have stopped me.

My stance, that I'm sure you'll disagree with, is that at that age (and I mean that general age, as I do agree there is a blurred transitional period to maturity), there is a very clear separation between what you think you're ready for and what you actually are ready for.

As for the Kent factors, to my knowledge, they apply to the severity of the crime , priors, premeditation, and so on, correct? If this is true, is it correct to assume that you're suggesting that statutory rape be generally discarded, and that courts should adopt these standards with regard to the sexual act itself? Because otherwise, frankly, I don't see how this applies as a maturity test in terms of sexual behavior.

And don't worry. You don't need to keep including a disclaimer of "if you choose to respond." I'm not here to win points and ignore people that disagree with me. I am genuinely taking things away from this discussion, and I hope that its admittedly adversarial nature at this point in time doesn't make it seem otherwise. I may disagree with you on this and continue to do so, but like I said, I am taking things away from this. I had never honestly thought about the rationale or potential justification for the actual age within an age of consent law until now. That's one of the better parts of this forum--you can come into a discussion, get called an idiot/call other people an idiot, then come away from it having learned something and reevaluated your own stances.
 
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Ah, but we can't separate pregnancy. That's not fair! It's a risk of sex. It's kind of a gray area, and it will depend on the question you're asking. In this case we're talking about age of consent, mostly in respect to adults having sex with minors. One could make the argument that having an adult in the equation increases the likelihood of protection being used. Certainly it's easier for an adult to buy condoms than a kid, right? So if we look at the numbers another way, maybe those minors who have sex are better off having sex with adults because their life outcomes are better.
Thanks for proving, after accusing me of arguing out of emotion rather than facts, that you actually have not spent one single solitary minute studying actual hard data on this matter. In fact, you haven't even bothered to click the links that have had such studies in this very thread.

But that's not surprising, considering its obvious the only reason you are in this thread is to be contentious. You have no interest in actually objectively viewing the matter at hand from a studious standpoint.

Yes, pregnancy is a risk when having sex for adults too. The difference is the risk that pregnancy poses to young teens (and the baby) vs mature women.

1. Pregnancy is more dangerous and results in higher complication and death rates for children and mothers when the mother is a young teen, compared to the dangers for older teens and above

2. One of the single biggest factors which affects both a woman's life and her child's life is the age at which she has children. This is still true when controlling for other social factors, like poverty. Teenage mothers are more likely to drop out of high school and be impoverished, and their children are at an incredibly higher risk of being high school drop outs and criminals.

3. Young women who have sex with adult men use condoms LESS OFTEN then when they have sex with kids their age. Typically because uneducated girls are more likely to have sex with older men. One would HOPE that the men themselves, beign adults, would take the responsibility themselves to use protection, but statistics show that is not the case. Men who have sex with teens use protection at a far lesser rate than men who have sex with women their own age. And girls who have sex with adult men use protection less than girls who have sex with boys their age. They get STDs and become pregnant at a vastly higher rate when they have sex with older men than with boys their own age.


But let me guess, you'll pull another straw man argument about how this is all based on some "Puritan view of sex." Please. Even the most sexually liberal countries in the world - the Netherlands, Scandanavia, Germany, who are (and rightly so) praised world wide at the effectiveness of their sexual education programs, have as the central part of that education the goal of preventing younger teens from having sex. They all sought, through sexual education, to raise the age at which teens were having sex. In fact, in the Netherlands now, the average age at which people first start having sex is 17.7 years. This is a direct result of their public education campaign to do just that - make sure kids were waiting to have sex.


This is because they, unlike you, actually did comprehensive studies on the dangerousness that teen pregnancy poses to teens, their children, and the society those children grow up in. They decided that their top priority in sexual education was preventing kids from having sex. So despite being the most liberal societies in terms of sex, their public policies still reflect a priority on preventing sex in young teens.

Why are you even on a skeptics blog, UY? It's obvious you don't care a single thing about using studies and data to forumlate an opinion. You're just here to fight.
 
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I think it is safe to say I have never given a woman an orgasm, so I am ignoring the last five pages :p .

I've heard a lot of "17 and 16.98" stories, but they just don't do anything for me. It just happens when we have lines. If we move them, we will hear "13 and 12.98" stories. It says nothing about the appropriateness of the lines themselves. If you don'.t want a line, then what to replace it with?

Now when I was on Gaia, a forum filled with teens, there was always at least one thread on this on the main Extended Discussion page. They wanted to do a test of sexual maturity. I thought that a written exam was the dumbest thing I had ever heard of, but a lot of people seemed to like it :confused: .

These are the best stats I felt I could find on the matter:

One third (33%) of sexually active teens 15-17 reported “being in a relationship where they felt things were moving too fast sexually”, and 24 percent had “done something sexual they didn’t really want to do.” More than one in five (21%) reported having oral sex to “avoid having sexual intercourse” with a partner.

More than a quarter (29%) of teens 15-17 report feeling pressure to have sex.

Nearly one in 10 (9%) 9-12th grade students report having been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to at some point. Females (12%) were more likely than males (6%) to report this experience.

...

Most (74%) sexually active females aged 15-19 have partners who are the same age or 1-3 years older; for a quarter of girls, their first partners were 4 or more years older. The younger a girl is when she has sex for the first time, the greater the average age difference is likely to be between her and her partner.

Linky

Young teens frown on those their age having sexual intercourse - an overwhelming majority (91%) say it is not okay for 13 to 14 year-olds to have sex. Somewhat fewer, but still a majority, (78%) object to 15 to 16 year-olds having intercourse.

Linky.

Personally, I think the biggest problem is ambiguity in the law with respect to two minors. When I was in high school (03-07), There were a lot of conflicting stories on what would happen in such cases. Of course, this might just be in Illinois.

And then what for minors below what would be "Romeo and Juliet" applicable? I don't like the vague "up to DA's/judge's/prosecutor's discretion".

I'll be pushing for comprehensive sex ed over abstinence before we change these laws, though :p .
 
I think it is safe to say I have never given a woman an orgasm, so I am ignoring the last five pages :p .

I've heard a lot of "17 and 16.98" stories, but they just don't do anything for me. It just happens when we have lines. If we move them, we will hear "13 and 12.98" stories. It says nothing about the appropriateness of the lines themselves. If you don'.t want a line, then what to replace it with?

Now when I was on Gaia, a forum filled with teens, there was always at least one thread on this on the main Extended Discussion page. They wanted to do a test of sexual maturity. I thought that a written exam was the dumbest thing I had ever heard of, but a lot of people seemed to like it :confused: .

These are the best stats I felt I could find on the matter:



Linky



Linky.

Personally, I think the biggest problem is ambiguity in the law with respect to two minors. When I was in high school (03-07), There were a lot of conflicting stories on what would happen in such cases. Of course, this might just be in Illinois.

And then what for minors below what would be "Romeo and Juliet" applicable? I don't like the vague "up to DA's/judge's/prosecutor's discretion".

I'll be pushing for comprehensive sex ed over abstinence before we change these laws, though :p .

Agreed wholeheartedly. "Abstinence only" doesn't give teens enough information to understand the consequences, variations, joys and impact of sex. There is a lot more to sex than "tab A goes into slot B" and more to safe sex than just "use a condom!"

Thank you for the stats. They are worrisome but it is better to have a more detailed understanding of the situation.
 
These are the best stats I felt I could find on the matter:
Can you relate the stats to an opinion about age of consent laws? Otherwise, they're just stats.

And then what for minors below what would be "Romeo and Juliet" applicable? I don't like the vague "up to DA's/judge's/prosecutor's discretion".
Why? Do you think it's better to come up with a one size fits all approach than it is to develop guidelines and allow people trained to deal with the issue handle it?
 
Close to 100 off-topic posts that became a lengthy derail have been split off to Abandon All Hope. Initially, I intended to split them off to another thread for discussion but things degenerated pretty quickly and AAH ended up being the only appropriate place for them.

The topic of this thread is clear: please stick to it in this thread.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
Thanks for proving, after accusing me of arguing out of emotion rather than facts, that you actually have not spent one single solitary minute studying actual hard data on this matter. In fact, you haven't even bothered to click the links that have had such studies in this very thread.

But that's not surprising, considering its obvious the only reason you are in this thread is to be contentious. You have no interest in actually objectively viewing the matter at hand from a studious standpoint.

Yes, pregnancy is a risk when having sex for adults too. The difference is the risk that pregnancy poses to young teens (and the baby) vs mature women.

1. Pregnancy is more dangerous and results in higher complication and death rates for children and mothers when the mother is a young teen, compared to the dangers for older teens and above

2. One of the single biggest factors which affects both a woman's life and her child's life is the age at which she has children. This is still true when controlling for other social factors, like poverty. Teenage mothers are more likely to drop out of high school and be impoverished, and their children are at an incredibly higher risk of being high school drop outs and criminals.

3. Young women who have sex with adult men use condoms LESS OFTEN then when they have sex with kids their age. Typically because uneducated girls are more likely to have sex with older men. One would HOPE that the men themselves, beign adults, would take the responsibility themselves to use protection, but statistics show that is not the case. Men who have sex with teens use protection at a far lesser rate than men who have sex with women their own age. And girls who have sex with adult men use protection less than girls who have sex with boys their age. They get STDs and become pregnant at a vastly higher rate when they have sex with older men than with boys their own age.


But let me guess, you'll pull another straw man argument about how this is all based on some "Puritan view of sex." Please. Even the most sexually liberal countries in the world - the Netherlands, Scandanavia, Germany, who are (and rightly so) praised world wide at the effectiveness of their sexual education programs, have as the central part of that education the goal of preventing younger teens from having sex. They all sought, through sexual education, to raise the age at which teens were having sex. In fact, in the Netherlands now, the average age at which people first start having sex is 17.7 years. This is a direct result of their public education campaign to do just that - make sure kids were waiting to have sex.


This is because they, unlike you, actually did comprehensive studies on the dangerousness that teen pregnancy poses to teens, their children, and the society those children grow up in. They decided that their top priority in sexual education was preventing kids from having sex. So despite being the most liberal societies in terms of sex, their public policies still reflect a priority on preventing sex in young teens.

Why are you even on a skeptics blog, UY? It's obvious you don't care a single thing about using studies and data to forumlate an opinion. You're just here to fight.

4. Coerced reproduction, in which the partner attempts to control a woman by getting her pregnant. Teens are more susceptible to this type of abuse because they have less experience with relationships and less access to the medical attention needed to counter it. Teens in relationships with older men are especially vulnerable.
 
I can't help but notice that there are three threads in this forum about rape, and all three have been started by the same person. I really hope that's a coincidence.

While i have confessed to having a rape fetish in another thread it's actually in the receptive role of being raped by other men, so i don't really think it counts. I just like to read about morbid, rotten and weird things that have happened around the world and what's more rotten than rape? I mean i could create a thread about this crazy dendrophile who murdered and raped people but i didn't feel like it.

Anyway, this thread gave me something to think about (and managed to distract me from more important things). Still, i feel that the only defensible age of consent is between 13-15 years old. And this isn't because of entirely selfish reasons (teenagers become sexually attractive to me probably when they are around in their late 14's and early 15's, the majority of those younger than that still look like little children to me) but because i feel that these ages are a good compromise between individual sexual freedom and both the risk of harm to the minor and society as a whole. Perhaps 14 is a better compromise or maybe 15 is. I really don't know.

Society cannot be perfect and it cannot please everyone in it but if we can demonstrably reduce the amount of suffering in society by either increasing or decreasing the age of consent then i cannot see any reasonable reason why we shouldn't.

Now i must try to get at least some sleep and i will try finish reading this thread tomorrow.
 

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