Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
boyntonstu said:
...

The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.

...
Click to expand...

But only a true idiot wouldn't know that is because the twins had not lost their birth certificates since their birth, and had no need to obtain a copy of them from the State, which would not have been in that form.

My children had "long" birth certificates when they were born, but several moves, a divorce, and a flooded basement later, I could not find them. So I went to the County Clerk and got a certified copy. It was printed by a dot matrix printer and was notarized. And it was all I ever needed to get them into school, get them passports, get them Social Security card replacements, or any other official function.
 
boyntonstu said:
Hmmmn?

The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.
Click to expand...


The Nordyke Twins' mother, provided the images of the COLB she received in 1966 (probably because her twin daughters were entering SCHOOL and needed the documents).

m1139416728.gif


^^^ Right at the bottom, see there under DATE = 5-5-1966

This was obtained 5 years after the Twins' birth

And the "original form" wasn't provided by Kapiolani; that was provided by the Department of Health and Vital Statistics (which then became the Department of Health in Hawaii).

No one got an original form after they gave birth in a hospital in hawaii. The first certified COPY form they would get, would arrive in the mail up to 1 month after the baby was born, IF THE Hospital filed with the Vital Statistics office in a timely manner.

Read more: Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=105347#ixzz1D2izCvaJ
Click to expand...
A wnd article from 2009 that was long debunked. Jerome Corsi is a LIAR.


You honestly think that in the 50 years since Hawaii became a state, that they wouldn't change their forms over the years to meet federal regulations?

Why wouldn't President Obama not allow anyone interested to view his long form BC?
Click to expand...
Obama doesn't work for the State of Hawaii, nor does he work for the Department of Health. How can he provide access to records in place he has no access to?

Apparently, Hawaii intends to allow anyone to see it if they pay $100.
Click to expand...
A proposed bill. It will not pass (because it will violate HIPPA and established PRIVACY LAWS). Bill does not equal law.


You've yet to address all the points and still promote the lies of birthers.
 
Rika said:
Wait, uh...

Follow me on this.

If she HAD the Long Form, she can release it, right?...
Click to expand...

I ask again that posters in this thread to please stop using "Long form" or "short form"

These are made up terms by birthers to DISCREDIT the official forms as provided by Hawaii.

IN ESSENCE all CERTIFIED Birth Certificates in EVERY STATE is a "short form" because the "original" documentation contains EVEN MORE information than what you are used to seeing.

there is only ONE form, and that Form OVER time has changed to meet the content requirements under federal law. the CONTENT of the forms have gotten less, but it doesn't invalidate the current form.

The form is officially called a "Certification of Live Birth" (1990-2008) or a "Certificate of Live Birth" (1940-1990, 2008-present)
 
BenBurch said:
But only a true idiot wouldn't know that is because the twins had not lost their birth certificates since their birth, and had no need to obtain a copy of them from the State, which would not have been in that form.
Click to expand...

If Elena Nordyke requested a copy of her daughter's COLB today from Hawaii, they would get a similar version that Obama has posted.

And to nail it in the coffin:

Lt. Terry Lakin's case hinged on the fact that Obama wouldn't provide a copy of his long form. What many do not know is that Terry Lakin's eldest daughter was born in Hawaii, when he was serving there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x603192

Lakin's brother appeared on the Andrea Shea Kin blog talk radio show, and a caller asked pointedly, if Terry Lakin had bothered to contact Hawaii's Department of Health to obtain a "LONG FORM" certificate for his daughter.

http://www.thefogbow.com/snd/Foggy_Original_Call.mp3

Transcript of the show (Foggy is a member here):

Caller: Hello, can you hear me?

ASK: Yes, we hear you loud and clear.

Caller: OK. Just checking. I'm "Spackle" in the chat room. And I have a question for Greg, which is, doesn't Terry have a daughter that was born in Hawaii?

Greg: He does. He was at Schofield Barracks for many years, at the military base there as a physician. His daughter was born in Hawaii ...

Caller: So I'm wondering why ... it probably would have made his appeal to the public more powerful if he had gone ahead and gotten a long form birth certificate for his daughter. If he could order one today, y'know, like everybody wants Obama to do, and pay ten or fifteen bucks to order the long form birth certificate, and then show it to people and say, "I got my own daughter's long form birth certificate, how come Obama can't get his?" Did he ever try that?

Greg: You know, he did, and I actually ... he tried to do it through the mail, and I actually tried to do it personally when I was over there, because I've spent time in Hawaii too, and the Office of Vital Statistics was closed that Friday.

But I will tell you that he's ... as a physician over there, he's seen numerous birth certificates, and that Certificate [sic] of Live Birth is something he'd never seen before, nor is it a birth certificate.

And then he personally signed off on ... he's been the delivery physician, not in Hawaii but at Fort Bragg ...

Caller: Wait a minute. Are you saying the Certification of Live Birth is not a birth certificate?

Greg: I'm saying it's not the original birth certificate, or a copy of the original birth certificate.

Caller: No, it's not. It's not. I agree with that but I mean ... in any event, so he never actually did pursue it and try to get a copy of his own daughter's long form birth certificate.

Greg: You know, I honestly can't answer that. I know she has one. I know she has one, just like all birth certificates, you know, all birth certificates that I've signed have location and doctor's name and other people ... they have information on them. And so I know that his daughter has one. But yeah, no I don't know if he's personally got one or could do that, in any type of ...

Would it be compelling evidence? I think you're probably right.

Caller: I just posted a link in the chat room.
(http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl)

And if you go to that link, the Hawaii government state website says you can't get a long form birth certificate any more ... even if ... and that's a link to a program they do for Native Hawaiians, y'know, ethnic Hawaiians, that if you're more than 50% ethnic Hawaiian, they try to help you with all kinds of programs, it's called the Hawaiian Homelands Program.

And they say they prefer the long form birth certificate if you have one, but they explain on the website that they don't give them out any more, and that if you don't have your long form birth certificate right now, if you apply for a birth certificate, you're gonna get a COLB, a Certification of Live Birth, just like the one that Obama published ...

... and that's why I was wondering, the state of Hawaii ... that even for people they're trying to help because they're ethnic Hawaiian, if they can't get a long form birth certificate, and if Terry couldn't get a long form birth certificate for his own daughter, then how is President Obama supposed to get a long form birth certificate for himself?

Greg: Right.

ASK: Well, that's a good question. Yeah.

Greg: Well, I think that's something that's fairly recent within the last few years, because it's always been ... before ... y'know I understand we've all gone to electronic records now, but ...

Caller: Right. In the state of Washington, the only birth certificate that you get is a little card that fits in your wallet.

Greg: Um hm.

Caller: And I live in North Carolina, and in North Carolina all you can get is a short form birth certificate too. So I just don't understand how President Obama could get ... unless they put him above the law that says that you can't get a long form birth certificate any more. I don't see how he could possibly get a long form birth certificate.

Marco: Andrea, this is Marco, let me just address that, because we're getting in the last few minutes, there's a few more things to cover.

ASK: Yep. Yep.

Marco: This is one of the issues, and I appreciate your comments in fact I think it's a very clever idea, but what we're missing is that the birth certificate is just part of the equation. As Greg just indicated, it's not even the physical sheet of paper, though everyone's expected to have one in this country ...
Click to expand...


Terry Lakin, a birther soldier, could have ended this whole thing by simply tyring to GET A copy himself. HE DIDN'T
 
boyntonstu said:
Hmmmn?

The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.
Click to expand...

That's a form that is no longer issued by the Hawai'i DOH. If either of the Nordyke twins asks for a new birth certificate, do you know what they'd get? They wouldn't get copies of those forms.

No, they'd get certified copies that look exactly like the one Obama released to the public.

So, tell me. Is Obama an illegitimate president because he lost the form that the Nordyke twins didn't lose? Especially since if any of them ask for a new copy, they'll all get the exact same form, the one Obama received and released?

Why wouldn't President Obama not allow anyone interested to view his long form BC?
Click to expand...

Because, as the law I've linked explains quite clearly and explicitly, he can't. The decision isn't up to him at all, unless he either breaks the law, or overrides a state law by decree.

Which do you want him to do? You've been remarkably reticent in answering that simple question, boyntonstu...

Apparently, Hawaii intends to allow anyone to see it if they pay $100.
Click to expand...

If this change to the law is passed. A change to the existing law.

And if that change is not passed, what then? What do you want Obama to do, boyntonstu?

"Not only are you asking for something that doesn't exist," Really?
Click to expand...

Really. As the law in Hawai'i stands, right at this very second, no one can currently receive a copy of the birth certificate as it was originally issued (and as the Nordyke twins received in the 1960's).

NO ONE. NOT EVEN OBAMA.
 
headscratcher4 said:
-snip- And, that certification is valid for every official document in every state and the federal government. People from Hawaii who are serving in the CIA or the NSA need only that document (in so far as certifying where they were born) to get the highest security clearence possible. Period. -snip-
Click to expand...

[slight derail]Having gone through more than one of those investigations myself, I CAN attest to the fact that the computer copy of my birth certificate that I contacted the Ohio Department of Health for when I thought I had lost my original birth certificate is fully sufficient to prove my citizenship in the United States for the background investigation. I submitted the copy I received when I went through my periodic reinvestigation and they never once said it wasn't a usable copy.

And interestingly enough, there is nothing on that computer generated copy that says "Certificate of Live Birth" or "Birth Certificate"; it merely has the office letterhead and the vital information needed on it, plus the notarized signature of the registrar of vital statistics stating that he certifies my name and birth facts as they are recorded in the office of Vital Statistics. The original, on the other hand, does have "Certificate of Live Birth", but doesn't have near the amount of information that's put on those original Hawaiian certificates from the 60's. I think over the years most state Departments of Health have decided to whittle down the amount and type of information they put on birth certificates. The only information on the computer generated copy is:
-File Number
-My name
-My date of birth
-Date the record was filed
-Place of birth (city and state only)
-My mother's name
-Her place of birth
-Her maiden name
-My dad's name

On the original, they have some other information, none of which is apparently necessary to certifying that I am in fact a citizen of these here United States, since my second copy was sufficient to get me a pretty high level security clearance. Just to follow up on headscratcher's point above. [/slight derail]
 
WOOhoo get this filng in the NICHOLAS E. PURPURA v KATHLEEN SEBELIUS divorce proceedings.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48177065/...equest-for-Summary-Judgment-Motion-Forfieture

This is the famous case where hte Divorce has been going on for well over 20 years. The original judge who started on the case, DIED.

Recently NICHOLAS E. PURPURA has started the downward spiral into birther beliefs.


Any of our lawyer friends want to take a stab at trying to understand this crap? The ToC is 8 pages
 
Sledge said:
What exactly is your problem with the document that's been released?
Click to expand...
Intriguing question my friend. A question i'm sure you wont get an answer for. ;)

*bark* *bark* Where's the long form?!?! Where's the original?? I wanna see Obama's foot prints on his birth certificate!! *bark* *bark*
 
Footprints would be a good one. I don't think my own one has that.
 
My birth certificate doesn't have footprints.

How can birth certificates have those anyway? The hospital is the one that gets the footprints for their records, not the Department of Health (or Vital Statistics, depending on the state).
 
Sabrina said:
my second copy was sufficient to get me a pretty high level security clearance.
Click to expand...

Let me assure you that wasn't "sufficient" to get you a "pretty high level security clearance". It may have been necessary but it was by no means sufficient. Not if they investigate applicants the way they used to investigate them. Probably every detail on that "copy" was independently confirmed. And you see, that's part of the problem with Obama's "copy". There appears to be difficulty confirming many of the details. Why there are even a number of people, including Obama's step-grandmother, who have stated they saw his birth ... in Kenya.

Not taking sides ... just noting the facts. :popcorn1
 
BeAChooser said:
Let me assure you that wasn't "sufficient" to get you a "pretty high level security clearance". It may have been necessary but it was by no means sufficient. Not if they investigate applicants the way they used to investigate them. Probably every detail on that "copy" was independently confirmed. And you see, that's part of the problem with Obama's "copy". There appears to be difficulty confirming many of the details. Why there are even a number of people, including Obama's step-grandmother, who have stated they saw his birth ... in Kenya.

Not taking sides ... just noting the facts. :popcorn1
Click to expand...
As long as you avoid everything that doesn't confirm your viewpoint...
 
By the way, I've read that Obama's birth weight was 8lb 2oz (supposedly from page 22 of Dreams From My Father). But since the certification of live birth that Obama and the State of Hawaii have released, and which Obama supporters now seem to be claiming is the only certification there is or ever was, doesn't indicate the birth weight, how did Obama know the birth weight? Could it have been on the "birth certificate" that he claimed in his book Dreams From My Father to have found when he was in high school? Of course, that birth certificate couldn't have looked anything like the one that's been published, since Hawaii had not gone to electronic ones yet. So … uh … why didn't he just release the one he found while in high school when he decided to make his birth certificate public? And if he lost it, why not just say so when asked about it?

Not taking sides. Just noting the facts and asking the occasional question. :popcorn1
 
BeAChooser said:
Let me assure you that wasn't "sufficient" to get you a "pretty high level security clearance". It may have been necessary but it was by no means sufficient. Not if they investigate applicants the way they used to investigate them. Probably every detail on that "copy" was independently confirmed. And you see, that's part of the problem with Obama's "copy". There appears to be difficulty confirming many of the details. Why there are even a number of people, including Obama's step-grandmother, who have stated they saw his birth ... in Kenya.

Not taking sides ... just noting the facts. :popcorn1
Click to expand...

You're pretty clearly taking a side here.
 
BeAChooser said:
By the way, I've read that Obama's birth weight was 8lb 2oz (supposedly from page 22 of Dreams From My Father). But since the certification of live birth that Obama and the State of Hawaii have released, and which Obama supporters now seem to be claiming is the only certification there is or ever was, doesn't indicate the birth weight, how did Obama know the birth weight? Could it have been on the "birth certificate" that he claimed in his book Dreams From My Father to have found when he was in high school? Of course, that birth certificate couldn't have looked anything like the one that's been published, since Hawaii had not gone to electronic ones yet. So … uh … why didn't he just release the one he found while in high school when he decided to make his birth certificate public? And if he lost it, why not just say so when asked about it?

Not taking sides. Just noting the facts and asking the occasional question. :popcorn1
Click to expand...

This is not grasping at straws. This is grasping at nothing and hoping there are straws.

The birth weight -is- usually notified, and written down somewhere. It just doesn't have to appear on the official document, nor does it have to be on the -certified copy that was released-.

And your final line is obviously a lie. Seriously, why lie, when everyone can tell you're lying? Please stop lying, and at the very least admit you're taking a side, and only "asking" rhetorical "questions" that are meant to help the birther case.

Or can you show us a single instance of where you've been asking questions of the birthers, wondering if they might not be wrong on this or that detail? Of course you can't, and you know it. So stop pretending, stop lying, and if you cannot do either, then I respectfully suggest you just stop posting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom