Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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Horatius said:
Yeah, but in two years - six at most - The Birthers will be victorious, and he won't be President any longer!
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He'll declare Sharia Law and assume the mantle of the Mahdi.

You heard it here first. i think.
 
At the request of Chaos, I want to direct this at byontonstu and those other posters here who want Obama to release his "long form" birth certificate.

Here is the relevant Hawai'i state law governing the release of any birth documentation information.

Pay close attention to the opening section, where it says that no information can be released, save for what's authorized by the rest of the law.

Note how what's authorized falls into three main categories: 1) a certified copy of the birth record or the ability to go into the vault and view (but not get a copy of) that original record, which can be granted only to a limited subset of people. 2) Index and research data extracted from the original records but which isn't a complete accounting of what's on any individual record (save for records older than 75 years being used for a specific genealogical purpose). 3) A letter of verification saying that yes, the Hawai'i DOH has a birth record on file.

Nothing else can be released. To anyone. Ever. PERIOD.

Now note that the "long form birth certificate" does not fall into any of those three categories above. Even those with a "tangible interest" can only look at the original (but not get a copy), get a certified copy (which is actually what Obama obtained and released to the public), or get a letter saying the original is on file.

Now, in light of all of the above: what is it, those of you clamoring for the release of information beyond what has already been provided, that you want Obama and the Hawai'i DOH to do? What would satisfy you, within the bounds of the above Hawai'i state law?

Or do you want Obama to break the law, or perhaps override a Hawai'i statute on his own authority as president? And if he does that, what other state laws would you be comfortable with Obama overriding on his own personal authority?
 
ANTPogo said:
At the request of Chaos, I want to direct this at byontonstu and those other posters here who want Obama to release his "long form" birth certificate.
law governing the release of any bi


Pay close attention to the opening section, where it says that no information can be released, save for what's authorized by the rest of the law.

Note how what's authorized falls into three main categories: 1) a certified copy of the birth record or the ability to go into the vault and view (but not get a copy of) that original record, which can be granted only to a limited subset of people. 2) Index and research data extracted from the original records but which isn't a complete accounting of what's on any individual record (save for records older than 75 years being used for a specific genealogical purpose). 3) A letter of verification saying that yes, the Hawai'i DOH has a birth record on file.

Nothing else can be released. To anyone. Ever. PERIOD.

Now note that the "long form birth certificate" does not fall into any of those three categories above. Even those with a "tangible interest" can only look at the original (but not get a copy), get a certified copy (which is actually what Obama obtained and released to the public), or get a letter saying the original is on file.

Now, in light of all of the above: what is it, those of you clamoring for the release of information beyond what has already been provided, that you want Obama and the Hawai'i DOH to do? What would satisfy you, within the bounds of the above Hawai'i state law?
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"get a certified copy (which is actually what Obama obtained and released to the public)" Not!

He released a computer form.

Do you see a doctor's signature on the released form?

Is there a doctor's signature on record?

The governor thinks/thought it did.
 
Does "certified copy" have a different meaning for birthers than the normal genealogy meaning of the term?

A certified copy isn't a photocopy of the original, it's a copy of the record. For example, a certified copy of a birth record is a copy of the entry in the Register of Births, which is then certified to be a correct copy of the entry.
 
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boyntonstu said:
"get a certified copy (which is actually what Obama obtained and released to the public)" Not!
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Nope, sorry, that's exactly what it was.

He released a computer form.
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The same form that everyone born in Hawai'i gets if they ask for a copy of their birth record information these days. Everyone. And that's the only "birth certificate" they release.

When you ask for confirmation of your birth records, you get either the form Obama got, a letter on DOH letterhead saying "Yup, we have it," or you can go in and look for yourself but not get a copy.

That's all.

Do you see a doctor's signature on the released form?
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No one's released form these days, in Hawai'i, includes a doctor's signature. No one's. Ever. On any form.

Is there a doctor's signature on record?

The governor thinks/thought it did.
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Too bad that, by law, none of the legally permissible ways of obtaining birth record information includes getting a copy which has a doctor's signature.

So, again...what do you want Obama to do?
 
boyntonstu said:
"get a certified copy (which is actually what Obama obtained and released to the public)" Not!

He released a computer form.

Do you see a doctor's signature on the released form?

Is there a doctor's signature on record?

The governor thinks/thought it did.
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What don't you understand? IT WAS EXACTLY a "Certified" copy. In fact, it was the very definition of a certified copy. It is the only document that the state issues that says whether or not a person was born in the state. The State department issuing the document "Certifies" that the person named on the document was born in the state.

And, that certification is valid for every official document in every state and the federal government. People from Hawaii who are serving in the CIA or the NSA need only that document (in so far as certifying where they were born) to get the highest security clearence possible. Period.

Not only are you asking for something that doesn't exist, at least in the way that Hawaii created its form and certifies that truth of that form, you are asking for something that is essentially irrelevent to any point that you want to make.

The form says he was born in Hawaii. The state "certifies" that the form -- whether computer printout or hand caligraphied scroll work by fransican monks -- is a document that does what it purports to do: certify that he was born in the state.

That is all she wrote. That is all there ever will be.

AND whether or not it least the doctor's name is completely irrelevent...to the laws of Hawaii or what Obama or any citizen of Hawaii would have to produce. Obama doesn't ahve to produce the doctor (anymore than anyone else does), he only met the doctor that one time and probably doesn't remember him/her (do you remember who delivered you? I don't remember who delivered me, it isn't on the "certified" form that I have from the State of Michigan -- which, btw, was sufficient as part of the documentation needed for me to get a security clearance when I worked for the Federal Government).
 
boyntonstu said:
"get a certified copy (which is actually what Obama obtained and released to the public)" Not!

He released a computer form.

Do you see a doctor's signature on the released form?

Is there a doctor's signature on record?

The governor thinks/thought it did.
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"[C]ertified copy". Now, concentrate... That means that the information on that copy is certified to be accurate and representative of the original document.
 
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Basically, I think he has confused two concepts, one which is legal.

Certified...as in a "certified" birth certific where the issuing authority "certifies" that it is a copy of a state record and that it accurately reflects the information in the official state record.


Super, magic, pixie dust copy...issued by enchanged elves in the deep of the Obamaisablackmuslim forrest and as in somehwere there is a super, magicpixie dust copy of the birth certificate that shows that Obama was born in Kenya and signed by Dr. Megela as attending and under the auspicies of Dr. Lysenko, and held in close secret by the Illuminati and their Wagnerian dwarf clerks.
 
So, boyntonstu, since you weren't around for the last couple pages (at least you didn't post). Maybe now you can answer some of our questions.

Is there any documented proof that President Obama's mother left the United States prior to his birth?

As you are the accusor the burden of proof is yours.

You also missed that part where Mike Evans admitted he had never talked to Ambercrombie.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/
 
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They may as well say that all they need to be satisfied is that he provides his baby teeth.
 
ANTPogo said:
Nope, sorry, that's exactly what it was.



The same form that everyone born in Hawai'i gets if they ask for a copy of their birth record information these days. Everyone. And that's the only "birth certificate" they release.

When you ask for confirmation of your birth records, you get either the form Obama got, a letter on DOH letterhead saying "Yup, we have it," or you can go in and look for yourself but not get a copy.

That's all.

No one's released form these days, in Hawai'i, includes a doctor's signature. No one's. Ever. On any form.



Too bad that, by law, none of the legally permissible ways of obtaining birth record information includes getting a copy which has a doctor's signature.

So, again...what do you want Obama to do?
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Hmmmn?

The Honolulu Advertiser published photostats of the original long-form birth certificates of twin daughters born to Eleanor Nordyke at Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital Aug. 5, 1961, one day after Obama was supposedly born at the same facility.

Read more: Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=105347#ixzz1D2izCvaJ

Visit the web site to see something that does not exist.

"Note how what's authorized falls into three main categories: 1) a certified copy of the birth record or the ability to go into the vault and view (but not get a copy of) that original record, which can be granted only to a limited subset of people. 2) Index and research data extracted from the original records but which isn't a complete accounting of what's on any individual record (save for records older than 75 years being used for a specific genealogical purpose). 3) A letter of verification saying that yes, the Hawai'i DOH has a birth record on file."

Why wouldn't President Obama not allow anyone interested to view his long form BC?

Apparently, Hawaii intends to allow anyone to see it if they pay $100.

"Not only are you asking for something that doesn't exist," Really?
 
What exactly is your problem with the document that's been released?
 
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