• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Their Return

KotA's analogy with that tribe is deeply flawed when it comes down to his beliefs...

The airplane represents a culture, a civilization which has brought very few good things for the natives. Our needs, our greed and our germs caused and are still causing havoc on the indigenous civilizations from the Americas. Take that tribe, for example. It quite likely they had to move due to logging (I would also add illegal mining as another possible distress source) and the odds are that several diseases have been and will be transmitted to them by contact with those "skygods".

Still want the skydemons to descend, KotA?
 
Correa Neto said:
KotA's analogy with that tribe is deeply flawed when it comes down to his beliefs...

The airplane represents a culture, a civilization which has brought very few good things for the natives. Our needs, our greed and our germs caused and are still causing havoc on the indigenous civilizations from the Americas. Take that tribe, for example. It quite likely they had to move due to logging (I would also add illegal mining as another possible distress source) and the odds are that several diseases have been and will be transmitted to them by contact with those "skygods".

Still want the skydemons to descend, KotA?
Click to expand...

Well, our skygods gave us religion, one of, if not the most derisive thing in our culture.

I'd say the damage has already been done.
 
Lets assume these folks are around since the dawn of history.

Heck, enough time to understand us, right?

So, "they" should be aware of our space exploration programs and the desire many humans have to meet our neighbours, other sentient species.

Thus, why the f-word they need a bunch of people staring upwards to descend? Not to mention that who can be sure they will be looking towards the right place? Who can be sure "they" will notice these folks looking upwards. Who can be sure "they" would care?
 
Correa Neto said:
...

Thus, why the f-word they need a bunch of people staring upwards to descend? ...
Click to expand...

Because governments that control space agencies have had a less than full disclosure attitude toward their existence.

The people of the world could bypass such lapses by speaking for themselves, proclaiming as one, that we want them to descend.
 
King of the Americas said:
Well, our skygods gave us religion, one of, if not the most derisive thing in our culture.

I'd say the damage has already been done.
Click to expand...

First of all, its nothing but a belief of yours. Myths saying a certain wisdom was given from the gods are not reliable evidence this wisdom was actually not the product of human activity. Actually we can even question the utility of many pieces of wisdom allegedly given or inspired by the gods. They resulted in wars, prejudice, oppression, etc.

Note that farmers drive machines with bright lights (some of which can fly) and give their cattle guidance, food, healt and other cool stuff. Cattle might be gratefull to their farmers, see them as gods and think nothing bad can be expected from them, right?

Heck,sometimes cattle even flock curiously around the farmers, eager to get some salt and lick their vehicles...

Thinking about some steak right now...
 
King of the Americas said:
First, I don't know how many tribesmen there are there, nor do we know what they 'know' about the log eat monsters or the loud bird that flys over.

Then again, maybe they know exactly what and who we are, after talking to other tribes who have made contact. Maybe they are trying to hold on to what and who they are now and don't want to make contact.

My point is that there is a parallel to these tribesmen and their heavenly onlooker and us and ours.
Click to expand...

There is one very big difference, which you seem to be unable to grasp. The people who fly over and the people who cut down trees are real. I think your idea that these people are so primitive that they think everything not them is magic is condescending. We don't know exactly what they think, but but they know enough to stay clear of encroachment, and to do it together.

Of course, you are also ignoring the one part of your analogy that could be true: The people from the sky and the people with the chain saws represent the tribe's almost certain destruction, as a culture and quite possibly as individuals. Whether they act from superstitious fear or historical experience, avoiding contact is their wisest choice. Perhaps that's the lesson you should see here.
 
King of the Americas said:
Because governments that control space agencies have had a less than full disclosure attitude toward their existence.
Click to expand...

Evidence? I mean, reliable evidence, not the ramblings and ravings from UFOlogists.

King of the Americas said:
The people of the world could bypass such lapses by speaking for themselves, proclaiming as one, that we want them to descend.
Click to expand...

All it takes is to look at exobiology/astronomy research programs and/or a sweep through TV channels, to see how eager people are to meet aliens.

Remember also that every religious cult is an attempt to contact the "gods", right?
 
bruto said:
...

...Whether they act from superstitious fear or historical experience, avoiding contact is their wisest choice. Perhaps that's the lesson you should see here.
Click to expand...

MAYBE...

Maybe there's an individual there, 'trapped' by tribalism, with the greatest math mind the world has ever known, but we'll never know it because they lack a written language much less higher math functions.

An end of tribalism and primitive manners of living may be seen by some as a loss, but living longer, under better conditions out from under the elements may be seen as a gain.

'I' for one would LOVE to see mankind take its next step in evolutionary development.
 
Correa Neto said:
Evidence? I mean, reliable evidence, not the ramblings and ravings from UFOlogists.



All it takes is to look at exobiology/astronomy research programs and/or a sweep through TV channels, to see how eager people are to meet aliens.

Remember also that every religious cult is an attempt to contact the "gods", right?
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by Giggywig
Illuminate me. Present the evidence world governments have presented regarding UFOs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...UFO-files.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...es.html?cat=37

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/22...files-released

---

The part can't speak for the whole. When we decide we want to make contact, they will.

IF this tribe DID believe the L.W.B. was "God", wouldn't it be dishonest of us to make contact AS "God"...? How might we descend from the heavens and tell them we AREN'T a deity at all?
 
King of the Americas said:
When we decide we want to make contact, they will.
Click to expand...

Evidence?

Am I supposed to believe just because you claimed to be the truth?

King of the Americas said:
IF this tribe DID believe the L.W.B. was "God", wouldn't it be dishonest of us to make contact AS "God"...? How might we descend from the heavens and tell them we AREN'T a deity at all?
Click to expand...

How can the farmers make cattle understand they are no deities?

or

Would the farmers want to not be seen by their lambs as deities?

Well, as soon they start to feast on humans you'll see they are no gods.
 
King of the Americas said:
MAYBE...

Maybe there's an individual there, 'trapped' by tribalism, with the greatest math mind the world has ever known, but we'll never know it because they lack a written language much less higher math functions.

An end of tribalism and primitive manners of living may be seen by some as a loss, but living longer, under better conditions out from under the elements may be seen as a gain.

'I' for one would LOVE to see mankind take its next step in evolutionary development.
Click to expand...
So how about a nice rousing chorus of "Don't know much about history?"

And you should get off your condescending, ethnocentric high horse for a moment, and remind yourself that whatever you think about tribalism and cultural progress, or the potential benefit of unleashing an imagined genius weighed against the nearly certain destruction of a culture and decimation of a population by disease, it does not even remotely resemble "evolutionary development." Those fellows with the spears and bows are just as evolved as we are, and they have as much right to live their way as anyone anywhere has and we're not their gods, whatever you might imagine they think when they see us fly over.
 
King of the Americas said:
The cameras will do the looking up for you, dear.
Click to expand...

How is that any different from the SETI array which has been pointed "out there" for how many years now with absolutely no results?

You are completely illogical. This part of the conversation started with a demand that we join you in a rather silly online petition to the organizing committee for the London Olympics, asking everybody to stop during the opening ceremony to stare skyward. The TV cameras won't point up unless the whoevers descend - they'll be busy interviewing Paris Hilton or Britanni Spears or the current tart of the month to get their opinions on the whole endeavor - so however many people are watching at home won't be out in their front yards gaping at the sky, so your initial message will be lost.
 
bruto said:
So how about a nice rousing chorus of "Don't know much about history?"

And you should get off your condescending, ethnocentric high horse for a moment, and remind yourself that whatever you think about tribalism and cultural progress, or the potential benefit of unleashing an imagined genius weighed against the nearly certain destruction of a culture and decimation of a population by disease, it does not even remotely resemble "evolutionary development." Those fellows with the spears and bows are just as evolved as we are, and they have as much right to live their way as anyone anywhere has and we're not their gods, whatever you might imagine they think when they see us fly over.
Click to expand...

Nicely said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom