Taco Bell sued

[Furcifer]

This is awesome. So nobody can sell anything that claims to have beef in it unless it has chunks weighing 25g or more, according to your unsourced claim? That pretty much rules out *all* ground beef products. Since when is any ground beef considered a "solid cut meat product"?

Wow, where'd the goal posts go. This is about "ground beef", I could care less about your fantasy products and labeling them for you. If you want I charge $200/hr.

 

[mortimer]

That's a lie. I've bought it. There's a button on the register and the receipt says:

add +snd grd beef

You're just being ridiculous and making stuff up.

You realize what the word "add" means, right? If your little anecdote is true (we have no reason to believe it is), you'll need to show that they'll sell you "seasoned ground beef" as an item, not as something added to an actual menu item.

Why does the Taco Bell web site not show "seasoned ground beef" as a menu item?

Why do Taco Bell commercials and other advertisements not advertise "seasoned ground beef" as a menu item?

 

[Furcifer]

e. Are you claiming the regulation you cited above specifically makes Taco Bell's "seasoned ground beef" designation illegal?

Well it clearly shows what Taco Bell calls "seasoned ground beef" isn't "ground beef".

The law also states seasonings and salt are allowed as long as they are indicated on the label. So seasoning it doesn't change anything.

 

[mortimer]

"Livestock Carcass Grading Regulations"
"A "solid cut meat product" is an edible meat product consisting of either a solid piece of meat or containing at least 80% of boneless skinless meat in pieces weighing 25 g or more."

This is awesome. So nobody can sell anything that claims to have beef in it unless it has chunks weighing 25g or more, according to your unsourced claim? That pretty much rules out *all* ground beef products. Since when is any ground beef considered a "solid cut meat product"?

Wow, where'd the goal posts go. This is about "ground beef", I could care less about your fantasy products and labeling them for you. If you want I charge $200/hr.

Fantastic. This is your claim. Fantasy products? Are you now saying that your claim about ground beef being a "solid cut meat product" is a fantasy? I'd agree with that.

 

[Furcifer]

Why does the Taco Bell web site not show "seasoned ground beef" as a menu item?

Do they show "12" flours" or "10" flours"? How about "3 cheese" or "peppers".

They show it as an ingredient on their website, so I don't know why they don't have it listed as a menu item. I know I've bought plenty of things that aren't on the menu at Taco Bell. I always ordered off the menu when I was a vegetarian.

Why do Taco Bell commercials and other advertisements not advertise "seasoned ground beef" as a menu item?

Another lie. You just keep making stuff up and expect it to fly? Unreal.

 

[Furcifer]

Are you now saying that your claim about ground beef being a "solid cut meat product" is a fantasy? I'd agree with that.

More lies, I specifically didn't call "ground beef" a "solid meat cut product". You did, at least you wanted to. And that legislation is part of the reason you can't just call it "beef".

It's misleading, because every one knows when you put meat into a grinder you get "ground meat".

ETA: unless you want to put it into a sausage, then it falls under another regulation for labeling.

 

[mortimer]

Do they show "12" flours" or "10" flours"? How about "3 cheese" or "peppers".

They show it as an ingredient on their website, so I don't know why they don't have it listed as a menu item. I know I've bought plenty of things that aren't on the menu at Taco Bell. I always ordered off the menu when I was a vegetarian.

What your silly "12" flours, etc is supposed to prove, nobody knows but you.

Feel free to provide *any* evidence that you can walk into a Taco Bell and order "seasoned ground beef". So far, you've avoided doing so, and I think we both know why.

Another lie. You just keep making stuff up and expect it to fly? Unreal.

And feel free to prove it a lie. Show an advertisement of any sort that shows "seasoned ground beef" is a menu item.

 

[mortimer]

More lies, I specifically didn't call "ground beef" a "solid meat cut product". You did, at least you wanted to. And that legislation is part of the reason you can't just call it "beef".

It's misleading, because every one knows when you put meat into a grinder you get "ground meat".

ETA: unless you want to put it into a sausage, then it falls under another regulation for labeling.

Ah ok, I went back and read your post again. You're saying that Taco Bell couldn't label "ground beef" as an ingredient because calling it "beef" would make it fall under the "solid meat cut product" designation. So your claim, then, is that you can't label "ground beef" as "ground beef".

The hoops you are jumping through are remarkable, but I don't think it's fooling anyone.

 

[slingblade]

Yeah, there's no point in arguing this with 3body, who cannot understand the basic distinctions in the law, in the regulations, or even between two countries.

Seasoned ground beef contains ground beef, seasonings, and water.
The lawsuit seeks to establish whether Taco Bell is putting non-meat fillers in that mixture as well, to the point that the ground beef constitutes less than half of the mixture, as the suit claims.

The product actually consists of 88% ground beef. So the claim is false and the suit will fail.

ETA: I supposed this place should be sued, as well, as they are also using illegal terminology?

http://www.maid-rite.com/aboutus/unique.shtml

"In addition to our signature Maid-Rite ground beef sandwiches,"

 

[Furcifer]

What your silly "12" flours, etc is supposed to prove, nobody knows but you.

Yah right, by your logic if they don't appear on the Taco Bell website they don't exist.

Feel free to provide *any* evidence that you can walk into a Taco Bell and order "seasoned ground beef". So far, you've avoided doing so, and I think we both know why.

How about a class action lawsuit? You're just being silly now, deny deny deny. I suggest you read the law suit and look long and hard at the evidence they submitted instead of continuing on this "They didn't say that" nonsense.

 

[Furcifer]

Yeah, there's no point in arguing this with 3body, who cannot understand the basic distinctions in the law, in the regulations, or even between two countries.

How about this, I've shown numerous cases where they are the same. You show me one where they differ. OK? Show me for once.

Seasoned ground beef contains ground beef, seasonings, and water.

Correct.

The lawsuit seeks to establish whether Taco Bell is putting non-meat fillers in that mixture as well, to the point that the ground beef constitutes less than half of the mixture, as the suit claims.

Actually if there's any filler or extenders it isn't "ground beef". Read the law, it's been cited numerous times.

The product actually consists of 88% ground beef. So the claim is false and the suit will fail.

Doubtful, it can't contain fillers and extenders to be called "ground beef". the addition of fillers and extenders also has to be identified, it currently isn't.

 

[Furcifer]

Ah ok, I went back and read your post again. You're saying that Taco Bell couldn't label "ground beef" as an ingredient because calling it "beef" would make it fall under the "solid meat cut product" designation. So your claim, then, is that you can't label "ground beef" as "ground beef".

The hoops you are jumping through are remarkable, but I don't think it's fooling anyone.

Yes because if it wasn't ground of chopped then it would have to be something entirely different like "beef" chunks, which have to be a certain size. Are you following how the regulation is written or is it beyond your understanding?

 

[Furcifer]

This has been interesting, but it's pretty cut and dry, what Taco Bell calls ground beef isn't ground beef. Unless there are exceptions in the law that allow them to advertise a product that clearly isn't "ground beef" as "ground beef" they will be ordered to stop.

I'll be awaiting my reparations

 

[slingblade]

How about this, I've shown numerous cases where they are the same. You show me one where they differ. OK? Show me for once.

How about this, there's no point in arguing this with you. You started out quoting regs for meat packers and tried to say that if Taco Bell adds water to its ground beef, that makes the water a filler or extender and so it isn't ground beef anymore.

And that's just flat wrong. It's still ground beef, and the water they add is for cooking, not for filling, bulking, or extending the meat.

There's no point arguing this with you.

 

[Furcifer]

You started out quoting regs for meat packers and tried to say that if Taco Bell adds water to its ground beef, that makes the water a filler or extender and so it isn't ground beef anymore.

(a) Chopped beef, ground beef. "Chopped Beef" or "Ground Beef"
shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without
seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not
contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.
I didn't try to say it, I QUOTED IT FROM THE REGULATION.

There's no use arguing, that's correct, you're making outrageous claims.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

(a) Chopped beef, ground beef. "Chopped Beef" or "Ground Beef"
shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without
seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not
contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.
I didn't try to say it, I QUOTED IT FROM THE REGULATION.

There's no use arguing, that's correct, you're making outrageous claims.

Yes, the regulation for meat packers, not the regulation for labeling of ingredients in a product.


If TB is including a larger percentage, by weight, of ground beef in their filling, then it is not false labeling to include "ground beef" on their label as an ingredient because TB is not a meat packer/slaughterhouse/wholesaler, TB is a restaurant. As such, "seasoned ground beef" is accurate in that it is ground beef that has been seasoned.


You're still arguing Canadian laws (which I dont' care if they're mostly word-for-word identical to US law, we're discussing a lawsuit here in the US, so you'd better be citing US laws) that apply to butchers/slaughterhouses and applying them where they don't belong.


If TB's taco filling is less than 40% beef, then it cannot be called "taco meat filling", but that's not what's being alleged by you. You're alleging that TB cannot include "ground beef" as an ingredient in their taco because there are other ingredients in the taco. That's just asinine.

 

[slingblade]

(a) Chopped beef, ground beef. "Chopped Beef" or "Ground Beef"
shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without
seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not
contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.
I didn't try to say it, I QUOTED IT FROM THE REGULATION.

There's no use arguing, that's correct, you're making outrageous claims.

No, I am not.

The regulations you keep all-capping at me like a damned child are for meat packing, and they are meant for the regulation of the meat-packing industry only. They are meant to keep meat packing houses from adding water to raw beef before packaging, to make the meat seem heavier than it actually is. This practice could result in you getting a package of raw ground beef that says it contains one whole pound of meat, but is actually only 15 oz of meat and an ounce of water, which is a fraud.

That is all those regulations are meant for! That's all! Those regulations have nothing at all to do with a restaurant buying the meat and cooking it with water. Cooking ground beef with water doesn't violate the meat packing regulations for packing meat that you keep quoting as if they are relevant.

Why can you not get that you are talking about two different things here?

 

[Furcifer]

Yes, the regulation for meat packers, not the regulation for labeling of ingredients in a product.

What? Who told you that or are you just making it up? So you think a retailer can just make up whatever they chose because you think this only applies to meat packers? That's just absurd and I can't believe anyone would make up things like this. As if the law only applies to meat packers. Lol, if anything meat packers have very little to label. And they don't label meat pies and chili con carne and all the other stuff these regulations name. LMFAO, they've got rules for "spaghetti and meat balls". If you ever see them making spaghetti at the meat packers run!

You're still arguing Canadian laws (which I dont' care if they're mostly word-for-word identical to US law, we're discussing a lawsuit here in the US, so you'd better be citing US laws) that apply to butchers/slaughterhouses and applying them where they don't belong.

No, the FDA is American last I checked.

If TB's taco filling is less than 40% beef, then it cannot be called "taco meat filling", but that's not what's being alleged by you. You're alleging that TB cannot include "ground beef" as an ingredient in their taco because there are other ingredients in the taco. That's just asinine.

Not in their tacos, in their "ground meat". Try to read the legislation BobThe Donkey.

 

[Furcifer]

The regulations you keep all-capping at me like a damned child are for meat packing, and they are meant for the regulation of the meat-packing industry only.

lol, no you just made that up. Seriously you think the regulations only apply to meat packers? That's a joke. I can tell you they apply to anyone making food.

This practice could result in you getting a package of raw ground beef that says it contains one whole pound of meat, but is actually only 15 oz of meat and an ounce of water, which is a fraud.

So is calling "meat filling" "ground beef"

That is all those regulations are meant for!

No, they aren't. I don't know where you get this idea from but you're wrong.

But just for fun, how about a link to what you claim OK? Don't post another lie until you link to this imaginary disclaimer that the laws regarding content only apply to meat packers, or the meat packing district, or what ever meat packing place you fancy. That would go a long way to support your claim, if it isn't a lie which I know it is.

 

[Furcifer]

This is the worst display of logic, the notion that the "meat packers" have separate (and more stringent apparently) laws when it comes to labeling what they produce.

You can't take ground meat, mix it with filler and call it ground meat. It's plain and simple. "Ground meat" is clearly defined as being a certain percentage lean fresh meat and a certain percentage fat. You can add some salt or seasoning but no water. End of story. No magic Taco Bell labeling laws, no nothing, that's it end of story. Taco Bell can't say their tacos contain ground beef because they don't, it's something else. Period.