Taco Bell sued

[roger]

I would suspect (I ain't no lawyer) that the USDA labelling policy would apply because Taco Bell functions as both a restaurant and manufacturer. Their manufacturing division provides ready made taco meat filling to the restaurants. I doubt you can use the fact that both arms of a business are under the same roof to get around labelling requirements. For example, there are extensive rules about labelling frozen pizzas. You can't just go buy a grocery chain, sell your mislabeled pizzas there, and then claim "but the rules don't apply to groceries, so bite me", I would suspect. I don't claim this paragraph is true, it's just my speculation. It'll be interesting to see how the courts interpret this.

Hmm, looking further, it appears that the labeling laws do not apply to manufacturers so long as the food product is not a ready to eat item sold in individual packaging (source). Since the taco meat filling is sold in bulk, taken out, and the tacos are assembled on site, it seems that Taco Bell would be exempt from the labeling laws. I know there were recent changes in the law about nutrition labeling if you have a chain with more than 20 outlets, but that is nutrition (calories, carbs, etc), not labeling in the sense of food names.

I don't know, it's almost like I'm not a lawyer or something! It's interesting, but kind of pointless to pontificate absent the specialized training and subject matter expertise necessary to really judge the situation.

 

[Hellbound]

I don't know, it's almost like I'm not a lawyer or something! It's interesting, but kind of pointless to pontificate absent the specialized training and subject matter expertise necessary to really judge the situation.

But it's fun!

 

[Dancing David]

Both chains were owned by PepsiCo.

Now Called Yum!

 

[Dancing David]

I can't believe Taco Bell got sued, and nowhere in the suit is "explosive diarrhea" mentioned.

Billy Mays
Chipotleway

 

[Travis]

I'm glad someone brought up Jack in the Box. I have it on good authority that their taco "meat" is almost entirely soy. I don't care though. Tastes good to me.

 

[Furcifer]

Why are you quoting FDA? Taco Bell was sued under the USDA labeling policy. Available here. (you can get to the rest of the policy, if you want, by substituting _3 for _1 or _2 in the link)

Couldn't find the USDA, but it's pretty rare to have one body say it's OK and another prohibit it.

Plus people are making stuff up like cooking it changes everything. Apparently you cook a chicken it should be labeled "stir fry". Who knew?

I can't beat that kind of logic!

 

[Furcifer]

I would suspect (I ain't no lawyer) that the USDA labelling policy would apply because Taco Bell functions as both a restaurant and manufacturer. Their manufacturing division provides ready made taco meat filling to the restaurants. I doubt you can use the fact that both arms of a business are under the same roof to get around labelling requirements. For example, there are extensive rules about labelling frozen pizzas. You can't just go buy a grocery chain, sell your mislabeled pizzas there, and then claim "but the rules don't apply to groceries, so bite me", I would suspect. I don't claim this paragraph is true, it's just my speculation. It'll be interesting to see how the courts interpret this.

All I was able to find was the Canadian regulation that says both should be labeled the same and advertised the same or it could be considered "misleading".

I just find it funny how up until yesterday I couldn't imagine anyone defending what Taco Bell put in their food as "ground beef".

 

[Furcifer]

I wouldn't worry too much that you are literally eating rat filth every time you eat a taco, a hot dog, or a breakfast sausage. Breakfast sausages do contain a lot of fat, but that's how they are supposed to be made. They shouldn't contain any rat hairs or insects in principle, and usually don't in practice, but if they do contain them below these levels, it shouldn't be harmful to health.

I don't. Some people however complain about finding a hair in their food. Hair, human at least is probably the cleanest thing you'll find in most foods.

The levels are set so no one gets sick, which is good. But it's still a little shocking to see how many puss filled lesions are acceptable.

 

[Hellbound]

Couldn't find the USDA, but it's pretty rare to have one body say it's OK and another prohibit it.

Plus people are making stuff up like cooking it changes everything. Apparently you cook a chicken it should be labeled "stir fry". Who knew?

I can't beat that kind of logic!

So have you got an argument yet for why restaurants can sell "hamburgers" without running afoul of the definition in teh exact same regulation you quote for ground beef?

Do you undertsand twhat those regulations are intended for?

Can you explain why the USDA/FDA approved ingredients list for Taco Bell's taco filling is named "Seasoned Ground Beef"?

Really, you've done nothing here but show your own lack of critical thinking.

 

[Furcifer]

So have you got an argument yet for why restaurants can sell "hamburgers" without running afoul of the definition in teh exact same regulation you quote for ground beef?

This is proof you didn't read any of the regulations. I suggest you read them and ask the question again, if need be.

Really, you've done nothing here but show your own lack of critical thinking.

Right, you don't read the regulations but decide you're the expert anyways. That's some critical thinking.

 

[Hellbound]

This is proof you didn't read any of the regulations. I suggest you read them and ask the question again, if need be.

Really?

Can you point me, specifically, to what you are referring to that I haven't read?

Or are you simply throwing out **** again to try and prove how correct you are, like when you posted Canadian law as if it had relevence?

I'm not trying to act like the expert, I'm trying to get you to actually, you know, support your position with evidence.

 

[Hellbound]

In regards to hamburger, here's the section you're basing your opinion on:

Subpart B--Raw Meat Products

Sec. 319.15 Miscellaneous beef products.


(a) Chopped beef, ground beef. ``Chopped Beef'' or ``Ground Beef''
shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without
seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not
contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water,
phosphates, binders, or extenders. When beef cheek meat (trimmed beef
cheeks) is used in the preparation of chopped or ground beef, the amount
of such cheek meat shall be limited to 25 percent; and if in excess of
natural proportions, its presence shall be declared on the label, in the
ingredient statement required by Sec. 317.2 of this subchapter, if any,
and otherwise contiguous to the name of the product.
(b) Hamburger. ``Hamburger'' shall consist of chopped fresh and/or
frozen beef with or without the addition of beef fat as such and/or
seasoning, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not
contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders. Beef cheek meat
(trimmed beef cheeks) may be used in the preparation of hamburger only
in accordance with the conditions prescribed in paragraph (a) of this
section.
(c) Beef patties. ``Beef Patties'' shall consist of chopped fresh
and/or frozen beef with or without the addition of beef fat as such and/
or seasonings. Binders or extenders, Mechanically Separated (Species)
used in accordance with Sec. 319.6, and/or partially defatted beef fatty
tissue may be used without added water or with added water only in
amounts such that the product characteristics are essentially that of a
meat pattie.
(d) Fabricated steak. Fabricated beef steaks, veal steaks, beef and
veal steaks, or veal and beef steaks, and similar products, such as
those labeled ``Beef Steak, Chopped, Shaped, Frozen,'' ``Minute Steak,
Formed, Wafer Sliced, Frozen,'' ``Veal Steaks, Beef Added, Chopped--
Molded--Cubed--Frozen, Hydrolyzed Plant Protein, and Flavoring'' shall
be prepared by comminuting and forming the product from fresh and/or
frozen meat, with or without added fat, of the species indicated on the
label. Such products shall not contain more than 30 percent fat and
shall not contain added water or extenders. Transglutaminase enzyme at
levels of up to 65 ppm may be used as a binder. Beef cheek meat (trimmed
beef cheeks) may be used in the preparation of fabricated beef steaks
only in accordance with the conditions prescribed in paragraph (a) of
this section.
(e) Partially defatted beef fatty tissue. ``Partially Defatted Beef
Fatty Tissue'' is a beef byproduct derived from the

[[Page 299]]

low temperature rendering (not exceeding 120 deg.F.) of fresh beef
fatty tissue. Such product shall have a pinkish color and a fresh odor
and appearance.

[35 FR 15597, Oct. 3, 1970, as amended at 38 FR 29215, Oct. 23, 1973; 43
FR 26424, June 20, 1978; 47 FR 10784, Mar. 12, 1982; 47 FR 28257, June
29, 1982; 66 FR 54916, Oct. 31, 2001]

So, why is the use of the words "ground beef" in "seasoned ground beef" a violation, but the use of the word "hamburger" in something that comes with bread, cheese, lettuce, barbeque sauce, or whatever else is not?

Does the regulation suddenly not apply when it's cooked?

OR, perhaps, everyone else is right, and the USDA guidlines apply to ingredient labelling and meat manufacturers, as everyone except you and the plantiff seems to have grasped now?

 

[Furcifer]

But, Taco Bell calls it "Seasoned Ground Beef", not "Ground Beef"; the "Ground Beef" definition applies to meat packaging and labelling as an ingredient; and "Seasoned Ground Beef" is the name of their product with a USDA approved ingredients listing (and Ground Beef is not one of the ingredients, Beef is)

It looks like you're getting the point but using some bad logic to continue on with your fantasy. I'd like for you to go to the kitchen and pick a few items and list the ingredients here, because anyone who has ever read a label knows the meat comes first (hopefully), then later down the list is spices.

No label say "seasoned ground beef", it will be "ground beef"...."spices and seasonings". "Seasoned Ground Beef" can't be the name of a product if it doesn't use "Ground Beef", it's misleading.

 

[Hellbound]

It looks like you're getting the point but using some bad logic to continue on with your fantasy. I'd like for you to go to the kitchen and pick a few items and list the ingredients here, because anyone who has ever read a label knows the meat comes first (hopefully), then later down the list is spices.

No label say "seasoned ground beef", it will be "ground beef"...."spices and seasonings". "Seasoned Ground Beef" can't be the name of a product if it doesn't use "Ground Beef", it's misleading.

So you have NOT actually looked at Taco Bell's ingredient list?

Seasoned ground beef is NOT listed on their ingredients list as an ingredient, only in their marketing.

If you look at their actual ingredient page, you'll find the following entry:

Seasoned Ground Beef

Beef, Water, Seasoning [Isolated Oat Product, Salt, Chili Pepper, Onion Powder, Tomato Powder, Oats (Wheat), Soy Lecithin, Sugar, Spices, Maltodextrin, Soybean Oil (Anti-dusting Agent), Garlic Powder, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Citric Acid, Caramel Color, Cocoa Powder (Processed With Alkali), Silicon Dioxide, Natural Flavors, Yeast, Modified Corn Starch, Natural Smoke Flavor], Salt, Sodium Phosphates. CONTAINS SOYBEAN, WHEAT

Available at http://www.tacobell.com/nutrition/ingredientstatement.

Wait, don't tell me, your extensive research didn't lead you to actually look at their ingredients page to see what they said was actualyl in their product?

By the way, can you tell me exactly what part of the regulation I missed? Or why it doesn't apply to Hamburger? Still waiting for that.

 

[Furcifer]

So, why is the use of the words "ground beef" in "seasoned ground beef" a violation, but the use of the word "hamburger" in something that comes with bread, cheese, lettuce, barbeque sauce, or whatever else is not?

You don't know the difference between a "pattie" (or hamburger pattie) and a hamburger do you?

 

[Furcifer]

Seasoned ground beef is NOT listed on their ingredients list as an ingredient, only in their marketing.

lol, that's the reason for the lawsuit, they're marketing it as "seasoned ground beef".

And for the final time, the marketing should reflect the label or it is misleading as per the regulation.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

One funny aside to that, the sushi place I always used to go to never charged sales tax, claiming since they only sell raw food they don't have to.

Sounds like complete nonsense since there are plenty of cooked foods in sushi. Start with the rice.

Now, if that post was a joke, just to work in the "fishy" pun, then you got me.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

Does the regulation suddenly not apply when it's cooked?

Well, that would make sense since it's under the heading of "Subpart B--Raw Meat Products"

 

[Hellbound]

You don't know the difference between a "pattie" (or hamburger pattie) and a hamburger do you?

Apparently, neither does the USDA, because the regulation does NOT specify "hamburger patty", but "hamburger".

lol, that's the reason for the lawsuit, they're marketing it as "seasoned ground beef".

And for the final time, the marketing should reflect the label or it is misleading as per the regulation.

This would be the regulation you have yet to point anyone to? THe regulation you can't find?

Well, that would make sense since it's under the heading of "Subpart B--Raw Meat Products"

Yes, exactly, but someone here thinks that's just there for decoration or something.

 

[Furcifer]

Apparently, neither does the USDA, because the regulation does NOT specify "hamburger patty", but "hamburger".

They do, use your critical thinking skills. Try to determine why they list "patties" and "hamburger". I'll give you a hint: Roseanne

This would be the regulation you have yet to point anyone to? THe regulation you can't find?

For the US? No. But for Canada yes. No dealer shall apply to any prepackaged product or sell, import into Canada or advertise any prepackaged product that has applied to it a label that contains any false or misleading representation relating to or that may reasonably be regarded as relating to that product [7(1), CPLA].

Since the laws all appear to be the same, and Taco Bell operates here in Canada under the same pretense I don't see the need to differentiate. Aside from your floundering for excuses that is.

Think for a moment logically. The laws are all written with "raw" being the default assumption. They only differentiate when cooking becomes a significant factor. There's no reason to list every single food item regulation as it applies to raw and cooked. That would be stupid. The same goes for frozen.
What you're proposing is 4 sets of regulations, one for frozen, one for raw, one for cooked and one for partially cooked. It doesn't work like that. It only makes distinctions when necessary.