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Merged Their Return

carlitos said:
Sorry KotA. Is it your stance is that "Gods lent this technology to people, and then the people subsequently lost it?" Or "Gods lent this technology to people, and then they ascended to the heavens, taking their hand drills with them."

Perhaps you could clarify?
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Either, or neither...
 
King of the Americas said:
I have repeatedly said that an advanced, now lost technology or skill, was at work here, meaning that whatever did this WAS better than they have been given credit for I can't back up my argument with evidence, so I repeatedly say things.
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Fixed that for you.
 
King of the Americas said:
I don't know come 'from' anywhere...

I just know it's gone now.
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You still have absolutely no evidence that any technology existed then which has since been lost. You have provided only assumptions, based on your ignorance of technique.

Specialized tools now lost? Maybe. There are many specialized tools for obsolete skills which we would at least need to search very hard and long to find and reproduce.

Specialized skills now lost? Probably. Many crafts and skills were once practiced which required a long and arduous training and apprenticeship, as well as passing down accumulated knowledge. When nobody needs to do things this way, then they stop learning how.

Knowledge of specialized skills now lost? Probably. No written language, culture collapses and disappears, nobody needs to practice the skills....so nobody remembers precisely how things were done. But when skilled and imaginative people without mystical beliefs are motivated to figure these things out, they usually do.

Once again, there's plenty of evidence of superlative, surprising, and sophisticated know-how. There's none at all of unknown, forgotten, lost or mysterious technology.
 
bruto said:
You still have absolutely no evidence that any technology existed then which has since been lost. You have provided only assumptions, based on your ignorance of technique.

...
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The work present is evidence of technology beyond that of cold hammered copper tools...

These are the ONLY tools every found in the Americas from the period. I provided a link to the archaeological evidence of this (which you ignored).

So the tools that did this are 'missing'.

'I' am the only one here who isn't ignorant of the difficulty it takes to complete that work.

'I' am the only one here with any direct knowledge of what a hammer and chisel to do hard stone upon striking it.

YOU are the one 'in the dark', here, and you will remain so as long as you continue to ignore the links I've provided.
 
dafydd said:
So it was just humans being resourceful and inventive,as they always have been.
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Possibly...

Except that those who did this, are gone, we don't have what they 'used', nor do we know how they employed their tools.

What did this work is gone, lost, and or utterly unknown to us.
 
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
 
King of the Americas said:
The work present is evidence of technology beyond that of cold hammered copper tools...

These are the ONLY tools every found in the Americas from the period. I provided a link to the archaeological evidence of this (which you ignored).

So the tools that did this are 'missing'.

'I' am the only one here who isn't ignorant of the difficulty it takes to complete that work.

'I' am the only one here with any direct knowledge of what a hammer and chisel to do hard stone upon striking it.

YOU are the one 'in the dark', here, and you will remain so as long as you continue to ignore the links I've provided.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what tools are left. It's utterly absurd for you to assume that the absence of some tools requires belief in unknown technology and unknown "gods from heaven" when it is much likelier that the tools simply aren't there any more.

You are not the only one here with direct knowledge of what a hammer and chisel do to hard stone. I, however, have the humility to suggest that if I have had limited or poor results in that craft, it is because I am not very good at it, rather than that if I can't do it, nobody can.

and I repeat, editing to add: whether or not cold hammered copper tools are all that have been found, we know from the evidence that the people doing this stone work were capable of producing bronze alloys.
 
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King of the Americas said:
'I' am the only one here who isn't ignorant of the difficulty it takes to complete that work.

'I' am the only one here with any direct knowledge of what a hammer and chisel to do hard stone upon striking it.
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Umm, no.
bruto said:
by the way, King, I have worked with stone, though it's never been a serious pursuit, and I do not claim expertise simply because I've carved a few pieces of marble and shaped a few blocks of one thing or another. But your assumption that your foray into amateur masonry is unique is just silly.
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King of the Americas said:
I never held that stance to begin with.
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This is, and always has been, your stance:

"Aliens did it then left because we weren't looking up enough."

That may be slightly over-simplified but it remains true despite all the bluster and talk about what you can't do to rocks.

A grossly over-simplified version goes like this:

ROCKS??? ALIENS!!!
 
King of the Americas said:
The work present is evidence of technology beyond that of cold hammered copper tools...

These are the ONLY tools every found in the Americas from the period. I provided a link to the archaeological evidence of this (which you ignored).

So the tools that did this are 'missing'.

'I' am the only one here who isn't ignorant of the difficulty it takes to complete that work.

'I' am the only one here with any direct knowledge of what a hammer and chisel to do hard stone upon striking it.

YOU are the one 'in the dark', here, and you will remain so as long as you continue to ignore the links I've provided.
Click to expand...

Yes,you're the only one here who has seen a hammer and a chisel.
 
King of the Americas said:
'I' am the only one here with any direct knowledge of what a hammer and chisel to do hard stone upon striking it.
.
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to be fair, the only evidence supporting that is your anecdote, and with anecdotes you should always consider the source. Even if its true (which it isn't because you didn't mention it the last time you talked crap about ancient masonry) your level of expertise is still that of an untrained amateur
:p

myself I studied sculpture under Michaelangelo and he says you're wrong
 
Marduk said:
myself I studied sculpture under Michaelangelo and he says you're wrong
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That's the last place you'd want to stand... under him... you'd get covered in all the hard stone he was chipping from those blocks with his primitive tools.

:D
 
carlitos said:
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Click to expand...

That's beautiful...
 
bruto said:
It doesn't matter what tools are left. It's utterly absurd for you to assume that the absence of some tools requires belief in unknown technology and unknown "gods from heaven" when it is much likelier that the tools simply aren't there any more.

You are not the only one here with direct knowledge of what a hammer and chisel do to hard stone. I, however, have the humility to suggest that if I have had limited or poor results in that craft, it is because I am not very good at it, rather than that if I can't do it, nobody can.

and I repeat, editing to add: whether or not cold hammered copper tools are all that have been found, we know from the evidence that the people doing this stone work were capable of producing bronze alloys.
Click to expand...

I did find this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Nh...page&q=cold hammered copper, hardness&f=false

Please note the hardness of the alloys achieved.
 
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