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Merged Their Return

I have no idea how I could kill an elephant with spears and bows - probably it would take a long time and be quite dangerous. I would have a hard time hunting down and killing an elephant even with a M-16 or AK-47. Removing, cleaning, transporting, storing, preserving and prepairing the meat would also be a big problem.

So, the logical conclusion is that our mammoth-hunting ancestors must have had advanced weapons, advanced transport equipment and advanced kitchen tools.

How arrogant and ignorant must be someone to deny our ancestors' intelligence, skills and achievments, attributing them to something else?
 
EHocking said:
It was sandstone - just as at Puma Punku.

Further.
Cutting granite with copper/bronze tools.

It is quite obvious that this stone can be cut with ancient technology.
Click to expand...

It often helps if you'll READ the material within your links:

..."We're losing a lot of metal and very little stone is falling off," observes Hopkins, which is hardly the desired result. Hopkins' simple experiment makes this much clear: The Egyptians needed better tools than soft bronze and copper chisels to carve granite...

*Cutting granite or drilling holes in it is DIFFERENT than carving descending squares into it.
 
Correa Neto said:
...

How arrogant and ignorant must be someone to deny our ancestors' intelligence, skills and achievments, attributing them to something else?
Click to expand...

The only ignorance here is yours...

I have repeatedly said that an advanced, now lost technology or skill, was at work here, meaning that whatever did this WAS better than they have been given credit for.

What we have here is a lost technology.
 
King of the Americas said:
It often helps if you'll READ the material within your links:

..."We're losing a lot of metal and very little stone is falling off,"
Click to expand...
very little <> none.
It is obvious that granite can be dressed with ancient tools, abeit less efficiently than with modern tools
*Cutting granite or drilling holes in it is DIFFERENT than carving descending squares into it.
Click to expand...
The descending squares were NOT in granite, but in sandstone.

The previous video link demonstrates that cold-hammered hardened copper chisels are able to dress sandstone very accurately.
ETA: Egyptians also used bronze, which is harder than copper.
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/trades/tools.htm

ETA ETA: And iron. Just as the S.Ams had at Puma Punku. Copper, bronze and iron tools.

You have persistently (deliberately?) confused dressing andesite statues with dressing sandstone construction blocks in your posts in this thread.
 
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King of the Americas said:
The only ignorance here is yours...

I have repeatedly said that an advanced, now lost technology or skill, was at work here, meaning that whatever did this WAS better than they have been given credit for.

What we have here is a lost technology.
Click to expand...

Oh, sure, I forgot you once said you ARE the truth.

Again- your whole argument in a nutshell is "I don't know how to do it without modern tools, so they must have had modern tools". This is ignorant and arrogant.

Show us evidence of the use of these tools: the tell-tale microwear marks they leave behind or bits of the tools. Ever considered why these things have never been reported?
 
EHocking said:
very little <> none.
It is obvious that granite can be dressed with ancient tools, abeit less efficiently than with modern toolsThe descending squares were NOT in granite, but in sandstone.

The previous video link demonstrates that cold-hammered hardened copper chisels are able to dress sandstone very accurately.
ETA: Egyptians also used bronze, which is harder than copper.
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/trades/tools.htm

You have persistently (deliberately?) confused dressing andesite statues with dressing sandstone construction blocks in your posts in this thread.
Click to expand...

These stones are andesite:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DTk1uyG8O...AAARM/H_6L2EeQ_fw/s400/puma_punku_letters.jpg

You are lying.
 
King of the Americas said:
We have been working stone with hammer and chisels for thousands of years. With progress, our tools have gotten harder and stronger. Making Puma Punku NOW with modern/advanced tools would be a difficult time consuming process. Trying to do it with period tools would prove impossible...

You simply can not make those cuts with copper tools.

The margin of error that I've seen would indicate the exact opposite of individually crafted stones.
Click to expand...
Argument from Ignorance
King of the Americas said:
This is downright laughable...

The stone being worked here has NOTHING in common with Puma Punku andesite.
Click to expand...
Appeal to Perfection
Correa Neto said:
I have no idea how I could kill an elephant with spears and bows - probably it would take a long time and be quite dangerous. I would have a hard time hunting down and killing an elephant even with a M-16 or AK-47. Removing, cleaning, transporting, storing, preserving and prepairing the meat would also be a big problem.

So, the logical conclusion is that our mammoth-hunting ancestors must have had advanced weapons, advanced transport equipment and advanced kitchen tools.

How arrogant and ignorant must be someone to deny our ancestors' intelligence, skills and achievments, attributing them to something else?
Click to expand...
Yup.
King of the Americas said:
These stones are andesite:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DTk1uyG8O...AAARM/H_6L2EeQ_fw/s400/puma_punku_letters.jpg

You are lying.
Click to expand...
Your first question that started this whole mess asked about carving GRANITE with STONE AGE tools, Mr. Name-Caller. Watch yourself.
 
carlitos said:
...

Your first question that started this whole mess asked about carving GRANITE with STONE AGE tools, Mr. Name-Caller. Watch yourself.
Click to expand...

I didn't call you a liar.

I said you were lying.

*I have since CHANGED my stance about the tools used. Referring to a changed stance, as my still holding it, is more intellectual dishonesty.

STOP lying.
 
I belive, KotA, you deserve EHocking an apology.
From the archeologists whom actually worked at Tiwanaku:

Can you tell me something about the stone quarries you investigate or list some literature?

Ponce Sangines published an extensive study on the origin of sandstones at the Pumapunku temple and ideas on how they were constructed. His book is called Pumapunku.
Pierre Protzen's study is one of best on the particulars of the masonry and construction method. He should be coming out with a substantial publication on his several years of study on the site.--Alexei Vranich
Click to expand...
(my bolding)
Source:
http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/tiwanaku/qanda.html

Again-If you want the truth, you should stick your head above the mud pool where Daniken and Co. dwell. Dump the arrogant and ignorant attitude of thinking your "gut feelings", "inspirations" can not be wrong.

ETA- Yes, there are andesite stones, too. But sandstone blocks are larger.
The stones in the ruins of Tiwanaku are basically of two types, sandstone and andesite. The largest of the sandstones in the ruins are and estimated 130 tons. The andesite stones approach somewhere around 30 tons. The closest sandstone quarries are about 10 kilometers away while the closest andesite stone quarries are on distant shores of Lake Titicaca.
Click to expand...

http://www.reedboat.org/The Stone/thestone.html

Now, what about doing some actual work and trying to contact the folks involved in that experimental archeology project and ask them about the carving methods? Make a bet with them. 10K US grant they can not carve a stone with the tools (really) available back then. I bet they would love to have some extra funding.
 
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Sorry KotA. Is it your stance is that "Gods lent this technology to people, and then the people subsequently lost it?" Or "Gods lent this technology to people, and then they ascended to the heavens, taking their hand drills with them."

Perhaps you could clarify?
 
His stance?

I would describe it as cornered, left with nothing but blind belief, ignorance and arrogance to support his version of reality.

But hey, this stuff has been keeping religions afloat for centuries, hasn't it?
 
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