Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RoseMontague]

I went to the Etoile 54 website (one of the owners is to testify they had no buses running). It just so happens that they have a photogallery of 10/31/07 (not to be mistaken with 11/1/07). Didn't see any buses but a lot of kids partying (not many dressed up that I saw).

http://www.etoile54.com/consolle.html

 

[Alt+F4]

I really do know.

The city (municipal) buses are bright yellow and contain logos and advertising. The disco buses are white and plain.

Curatolo is either honestly mistaken or a liar.

You really do know John? Ok, how? Please just show us photos of the city buses, the tourist buses and the disco buses as they were on November 1, 2007.

 

[LondonJohn]

I went to the Etoile 54 website (one of the owners is to testify they had no buses running). It just so happens that they have a photogallery of 10/31/07 (not to be mistaken with 11/1/07). Didn't see any buses but a lot of kids partying (not many dressed up that I saw).

http://www.etoile54.com/consolle.html

A couple of the out-of-town clubs had/have costume parties for Halloween, but not etoile54 (who have a Halloween night, but not costume). Some of the in-town clubs/bars also have/had Halloween costume parties, including of course the one that Meredith herself went to dressed as a vampire.

What I can be virtually 100% certain of is that there were some people wandering round Perugia on 31st October 2007 dressed in ghoulish costumes and masks, but that there were no people wandering round Perugia on 1st November 2007 dressed in ghoulish costumes and masks.

 

[LondonJohn]

You really do know John? Ok, how? Please just show us photos of the city buses, the tourist buses and the disco buses as they were on November 1, 2007.

Do I have to produce photos of the actual buses involved, taken on 1st November 2007? Pathetic. Give it up.

 

[Alt+F4]

I went to the Etoile 54 website (one of the owners is to testify they had no buses running). It just so happens that they have a photogallery of 10/31/07 (not to be mistaken with 11/1/07). Didn't see any buses but a lot of kids partying (not many dressed up that I saw).

http://www.etoile54.com/consolle.html

Good find. This disco is in Perugia. It uses buses. The disco Rudy went to on November 1 was also in Perugia. Are they so far from each other?

 

[Alt+F4]

Do I have to produce photos of the actual buses involved, taken on 1st November 2007? Pathetic. Give it up.

You say, "you really do know", then you present zero evidence to back up your claim.

And yes, if you want anyone to believe that the buses were different then just present evidence that the buses were different!

How about photos of the buses taken anytime in 2007?

 

[Alt+F4]

What I can be virtually 100% certain of is that there were some people wandering round Perugia on 31st October 2007 dressed in ghoulish costumes and masks, but that there were no people wandering round Perugia on 1st November 2007 dressed in ghoulish costumes and masks.

Since you weren't in Perugia on either October 31, 2007 or November 1, 2007 you can not be 100% certain of either thing, especially the second one.

 

[Justinian2]

I really do know.

The city (municipal) buses are bright yellow and contain logos and advertising. The disco buses are white and plain.

Curatolo is either honestly mistaken or a liar.

You want my vote???

 

[RoseMontague]

You really do know John? Ok, how? Please just show us photos of the city buses, the tourist buses and the disco buses as they were on November 1, 2007.

Why don't you help me look for pictures Alt+F4? I am about Googled out and I keep getting sidetracked (see my last 3 links). I would suggest a search on FaceBook or MySpace because the regular search engines suck when it comes to an image search.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Say so!

But since you mention Amnesty International then it would be a condemnation against Italy in whole, rather than Perugia specifically. I don't remember Amnesty International ever making an accusation against a specific city, but I could be wrong.

Alt+F4,

In post 23181 you will find two links to reports from Amnesty International in 2007 and 2008, plus some quotes. The reports were national in scope, IIUC. The Committee to Protect Journalists protested Mario Spezi's imprisonment but also made some more general points about journalists in Italy as part of their awareness campaign: "Several local journalists told CPJ that Italian reporters are afraid to speak openly in support of Spezi because they fear angering authorities. Several declined to be quoted by name for fear of official harassment."

I don't have much information about Perugia's law enforcement except what this case and the Monster of Florence case have turned up. However, the Rome forensics lab has shown more than one instance of bias and/or poor practice IMO.

 

[RoseMontague]

Good find. This disco is in Perugia. It uses buses. The disco Rudy went to on November 1 was also in Perugia. Are they so far from each other?

I am not touching Google again tonight (or maybe never again for that matter).

 

[Chris_Halkides]

low template DNA

RoseMontague,

I know what you mean about getting sidetracked. I found an interesting article about low template DNA at the Promega site. Charlotte Word gave 5 laboratory recommendations, "4) make SOP, validation studies and electronic data (where printed profiles are inadequate for profile quality assessment) available in discovery;

Promega is one of two major corporations that make forensic DNA testing kits. There are some other articles at this site that are worth looking at as well.

 

[Alt+F4]

Why don't you help me look for pictures Alt+F4? I am about Googled out and I keep getting sidetracked (see my last 3 links). I would suggest a search on FaceBook or MySpace because the regular search engines suck when it comes to an image search.

I did look Rose, and also could not find much. I'm not on Facebook or MySpace. Two issues I think: we don't read Italian (and I doubt John does either), and there aren't a lot of photographs of Italian buses out there, really, what is the point of taking photos of buses anyway?

With that said, John has presented zero evidence that the buses were very different in mid/late 2007. Until the disco owners and bus people give their testimony the question remains unanswered.

 

[Alt+F4]

I am not touching Google again tonight (or maybe never again for that matter).

I don't blame you.

 

[Alt+F4]

In post 23181 you will find two links to reports from Amnesty International in 2007 and 2008, plus some quotes. The reports were national in scope, IIUC. The Committee to Protect Journalists protested Mario Spezi's imprisonment but also made some more general points about journalists in Italy as part of their awareness campaign: "Several local journalists told CPJ that Italian reporters are afraid to speak openly in support of Spezi because they fear angering authorities. Several declined to be quoted by name for fear of official harassment."

Thanks for the links, I will read them tomorrow when I have more online time.

However, the Rome forensics lab has shown more than one instance of bias and/or poor practice IMO.

Do you have more information on this? Thanks in advance.

 

[RoseMontague]

I don't blame you.

Thanks. Google is getting worse by the day and the rest are poor as well, imo. I am really peeved they removed the date range to narrow your search with and the archive seems to have gone AWOL as well. The problem is the subject of the picture. How many people are going to take a picture of a plain white bus and label it Perugia disco bus then post it saying you got to see this cool bus we rode to the club in? LOL.

There are probably pictures somewhere relating to Perugian night life, dancing, clubs and disco's, etc that have a disco bus in the picture, will take more patience than I have tonight however.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

low template DNA critique

To all,

Concerning low template DNA profiling Bruce Budowle wrote, “Forensic DNA typing has been labeled the gold standard of forensic science (14,25). The methodology has been demonstrated to be robust, reproducible and reliable. In contrast, LCN typing has not been well developed and applied appropriately. Moreover, the validation studies do not comport with protocols, assumptions for calculating the weight of the evidence are in question, and the scientific literature recommendations are not necessarily in concert with practices. It would be a shame to abandon the standards in place for forensic DNA typing just to push the envelope with LCN typing.”

 

[RoseMontague]

RoseMontague,

I know what you mean about getting sidetracked. I found an interesting article about low template DNA at the Promega site. Charlotte Word gave 5 laboratory recommendations, "4) make SOP, validation studies and electronic data (where printed profiles are inadequate for profile quality assessment) available in discovery;

Promega is one of two major corporations that make forensic DNA testing kits. There are some other articles at this site that are worth looking at as well.

Excellent find. I must have seen a bazillion pictures of partying college kids in Perugia tonight, they have no shortage of clubs in that area.

 

[LondonJohn]

I did look Rose, and also could not find much. I'm not on Facebook or MySpace. Two issues I think: we don't read Italian (and I doubt John does either), and there aren't a lot of photographs of Italian buses out there, really, what is the point of taking photos of buses anyway?

With that said, John has presented zero evidence that the buses were very different in mid/late 2007. Until the disco owners and bus people give their testimony the question remains unanswered.

1) I do read and speak Italian - not to a fluency level, but to a pretty decent conversational standard. I realise that it may come as a surprise to some insular Americans that many people in the UK travel and work extensively across continental Europe, or that many UK people study two or more foreign languages at school.

2) I am willing to bet any amount of money with you (on a simple even-money bet) that the Perugia municipal (APM) buses looked extremely similar in 2007 to the picture I posted, and that they were instantly distinguishable from the disco shuttle buses. How often do NY City buses change their colouration substantively? London buses have been bright red since the 1930s.

3) In a court of law, of course one needs first-hand evidence to back up these sorts of assertions. If I were sufficiently obsessed by this case (but fortunately for me, I'm not), I suppose I could phone or email APM and ask them for photos of their bus fleet going back three years. I suspect that I'd get the same kind of response as those who wrote to Leeds University asking for Michael Krom to be disciplined or sacked.....

4) I am also willing to bet any amount of money that the defence will be able to prove two things in the appeal (if it gets that far, that is...): a) that there were no disco buses running on the night of 1st November 2007; b) that the disco buses are clearly different from the municipal buses.

 

[Chris C]

I really do know.

The city (municipal) buses are bright yellow and contain logos and advertising. The disco buses are white and plain.

Curatolo is either honestly mistaken or a liar.

I thought the first time he ever mentioned the busses was on the witness stand. So basicly he doesn't remember the busses until 2 years later.