Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[CoulsdonUK]

Mary and Kestrel

Thank you.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Lots of people believe Maresca's actions are about money. Most of those people believes Maresca's actions are because of Sollecito's money. What I'm saying is Maresca might be trying to protect the Kerchers from financial backlash over this whole Knox/Sollecito fiasco. After all its not the Kerchers fault, but Mignini did drag them into the middle of this whole mess.

Another example of Mignini dragging someone into the middle of this. Lets look at Patrick. Mignini drags a slander charge into the middle of a murder trial so he can get those statements entered as evidence. What happens to Patrick if the slander conviction gets tossed because of the Murder trial. Is he no responsible for a possible backlash from the overturned conviction.

ChrisC

Oh okay understand. The point I was making is that financial compensation does not always translate into an actual payment citing the OJ Simpson multi million award. In addition, surely and this is assuming Raffael loses his appeal all they would have to do is transfer is wealth such as it is to a family member or trusted friend name?

 

[Mary_H]

Lots of people believe Maresca's actions are about money. Most of those people believes Maresca's actions are because of Sollecito's money. What I'm saying is Maresca might be trying to protect the Kerchers from financial backlash over this whole Knox/Sollecito fiasco. After all its not the Kerchers fault, but Mignini did drag them into the middle of this whole mess.

Another example of Mignini dragging someone into the middle of this. Lets look at Patrick. Mignini drags a slander charge into the middle of a murder trial so he can get those statements entered as evidence. What happens to Patrick if the slander conviction gets tossed because of the Murder trial. Is he no responsible for a possible backlash from the overturned conviction.

Do you think Maresca would take the city of Perugia to court to claim damages that resulted from errors made by the police and the prosecutor?

 

[Chris C]

Do you think Maresca would take the city of Perugia to court to claim damages that resulted from errors made by the police and the prosecutor?

I don't know. I'm still wondering what happens to the family, when the family hires a lawyer to represent them in a civl/criminal trial and it fails.

 

[Chris C]

ChrisC

Oh okay understand. The point I was making is that financial compensation does not always translate into an actual payment citing the OJ Simpson multi million award. In addition, surely and this is assuming Raffael loses his appeal all they would have to do is transfer is wealth such as it is to a family member or trusted friend name?

OJ still has to pay, they just can't take everything from him because of the state he lives in. Though I do find it funny that he is convicted of armed robbery for robbing someone of stuff that technically didn't belong to either of them. It all belonged to the civil plaintiffs, that won their civil case against Simpson.

 

[Withnail1969]

ChrisC

Oh okay understand. The point I was making is that financial compensation does not always translate into an actual payment citing the OJ Simpson multi million award. In addition, surely and this is assuming Raffael loses his appeal all they would have to do is transfer is wealth such as it is to a family member or trusted friend name?

Raffaele's assets would be frozen pending the outcome of the case to prevent the solution you suggest.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

OJ still has to pay, they just can't take everything from him because of the state he lives in. Though I do find it funny that he is convicted of armed robbery for robbing someone of stuff that technically didn't belong to either of them. It all belonged to the civil plaintiffs, that won their civil case against Simpson.

ChrisC

I still think my general point stands, civil compensation does not translate into actual payment.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Withnail1969

Sorry are you saying Raffaele assets are currently frozen or will be if he loses all of his appeals?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

mop and bathroom

CDHost,

I am not aware of any information that would suggest that the bathroom was cleaned after the murder. Amanda said that the bathroom was clean (possibly in her testimony), and I think this refers to a time period previous to the murder, but I could be mistaken. Amanda and Raffaele were not seen outside with a mop; that is one of the myths that won't die.

 

[RoseMontague]

Does someone still have a link to the photo's of Amanda's memoraile? I am looking for some conflicting information I am getting regarding the transcripts. I am interested mainly in this part of the statement [illegible section] as shown here:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=137438369606615

 

[Kaosium]

Money has nothing to do with what we are seeing on the Internet. I have seen similar behavior with other cases... the McCanns, Jon Benet Ramsey, and Terry Schiavo, the brain-dead woman whose husband wanted to pull her off life support but the parents were against it. Each of those cases attracted some seriously disturbed people.

Good point, I recall something of the latter debate and remember thinking it got a little weird.

As for the JBR case it just so happens that long after the murder, but before Patty Ramsey died, I came across a site run by a 'jamison' or somesuch, where I read the archives and found portions of the debate fascinating. A guy named something like Darney Hoffman posted there, he'd apparently become famous for the Bernie Goetz case back in the eighties. The guy who used a technique to try to add to the Shakespeare canon was also involved somehow, I think saying that note had been written by Patty.

Come to think of it I can recall some similarities to this case. There were some fanatically insistent that Patty Ramsey must have been guilty, fueled by those crappy cable shows I never watch, apparently Geraldo was one who was convinced she must have done it if I recall correctly. They were absolutely certain it seemed, however the 'evidence' was things like 'body language,' lies and incredulity at her every action. Oddly enough I think Hoffman, who posted as NYLawyer or something, was convinced at first but temporized later, though I don't recall if he ever recanted or not. I also recall there was a group convinced someone named Fleet White might have been involved in a satanic cult which sacrificed children.

You're right though, that was a contentious debate and obviously no one would have had money behind it. I just lurked it, as it came up when I was searching for something else, and by then it had mostly all died down as it didn't seem they'd ever find 'sick puppy.' I was amazed at how passionate people could get about condemning or for that matter defending people they didn't know. Very similar to what has happened here.

 

[Withnail1969]

Withnail1969

Sorry are you saying Raffaele assets are currently frozen or will be if he loses all of his appeals?

If there's a civil action in progress they must already be frozen. Your scenario of Raffaele signing over his assets to someone else to avoid them being seized is somewhat naive in my opinion.

 

[CDHost]

If I recall correctly, blood was soaked into the duvet indicating that the body was covered before the blood had dried. The body may have been covered after death, but the evidence doesn't fit it being done hour later.

Interesting comment. That contradicts Barbie Nadeau's reconstruction. From what I can see online blood dries in 2 steps. Coagulation which makes the blood stop running takes 10-20 mins. But actual drying is in the same ballpark as water evaporation, and can take days.

 

[CDHost]

CDHost,

I am not aware of any information that would suggest that the bathroom was cleaned after the murder. Amanda said that the bathroom was clean (possibly in her testimony), and I think this refers to a time period previous to the murder, but I could be mistaken. Amanda and Raffaele were not seen outside with a mop; that is one of the myths that won't die.

I thought there was a huge amount of blood which had been cleaned up. The famous picture?

As for the mop, there is a mop on the porch. Amanda herself makes frequent references to the mop and carrying it everywhere. But you are right I shouldn't have said seen with. That might have been where they kept the mop, but that doesn't explain Amanda's focus on it in her statements.

 

[christianahannah]

I have seen this claim at IIP as well and quotes from other posters elsewhere stating this is the case. Thus far, I have not seen a good cite for it.

If the Italian government is paying for a British citizen's legal expenses connected to a civil action against an American citizen, I would think that our State Department would have something to say about that.

There is information at the conclusion of the motivations concerning payment of legal costs of the plaintiffs. I assume this would include attorney fees but am not sure. There is no additional information concerning arrangements for fees between the plaintiffs and their attorneys. I am not sure if this represents the compensation for the civil complaint, the criminal trial or both.

Also, I think I remember reading that Maresca agreed to take the case for the advertisement (I cannot think of a better word) it would give, not for the money (I could be thinking of another attorney, I am not 100 percent certain of this).

Page 394:

Both defendants are condemned to the compensation, jointly and severally, of the damages caused to the plaintiffs constituted by John Leslie Kercher, Arline Carol Lara Kercher, Lyle Kercher, John Ashley Kercher and Stephanie Arline Lara Kercher, damages to be settled in another trial [in separate sede].

In relation to the requests and conclusions formulated in that regard, a provisional [compensation] is granted in which it is considered reasonable to indicate €1.000.000,00 for each of the parents and €800.000 for each of the brothers and the sister.

[424] The same defendants are also sentenced to reimburse the legal costs of the plaintiffs named and constituted here above, which are assessed as being € 100.000 with regard to the defence of the plaintiff Stephanie Arline Lara Kercher and € 160.000 with regard to the defence of the other plaintiffs, that is of John Leslie Kercher, of Arline Carol Lara Kercher, of Lyle Kercher, of John Ashley Kercher, in addition to a lump-sum refund, VAT and CPA as provided by law.

The relevance and complexity of the case, the particular laboriousness [difficulty] of the investigations, the number of hearings, the efforts lavished, all justify such sums. The difference between them [the sums] is justified by the number of plaintiffs represented by one defence with respect to the other and by the anticipated increase in this regard provided for in cases, such as this case, of ‚parties having the same position‛ (Article 3 paragraph 1 criminal charge attached to D.M. 8/4/2004 No. 127).

 

[CoulsdonUK]

If there's a civil action in progress they must already be frozen. Your scenario of Raffaele signing over his assets to someone else to avoid them being seized is somewhat naive in my opinion.

Dear All

Okay my alleged naivety to one side. Does anyone know whether Raffaele’s assets have been frozen?, hopefully a simple yes or no answer with verifiable source would be appreciated.

 

[Withnail1969]

There is information at the conclusion of the motivations concerning payment of legal costs of the plaintiffs. I assume this would include attorney fees but am not sure. There is no additional information concerning arrangements for fees between the plaintiffs and their attorneys. I am not sure if this represents the compensation for the civil complaint, the criminal trial or both.

Also, I think I remember reading that Maresca agreed to take the case for the advertisement (I cannot think of a better word) it would give, not for the money (I could be thinking of another attorney, I am not 100 percent certain of this).

Page 394:

4.66 million Euros total of which around 2 million Euros will be payable from Raffaele's personal assets.

 

[RoseMontague]

There is information at the conclusion of the motivations concerning payment of legal costs of the plaintiffs. I assume this would include attorney fees but am not sure. There is no additional information concerning arrangements for fees between the plaintiffs and their attorneys. I am not sure if this represents the compensation for the civil complaint, the criminal trial or both.

Also, I think I remember reading that Maresca agreed to take the case for the advertisement (I cannot think of a better word) it would give, not for the money (I could be thinking of another attorney, I am not 100 percent certain of this).

Page 394:

Thanks. I would think that if the Italian government paid these costs they would be ordered to repay the government on this.

 

[Onofarar]

I have seen this claim at IIP as well and quotes from other posters elsewhere stating this is the case. Thus far, I have not seen a good cite for it.

If the Italian government is paying for a British citizen's legal expenses connected to a civil action against an American citizen, I would think that our State Department would have something to say about that.

Rose - I saw that claim at IIP too - the claim referred to what it said were early discussions on a site called Haloscan. Where are Machiavelli or Fulcanelli when you really need them! Can anyone contact Broken_English? He may know.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

There is information at the conclusion of the motivations concerning payment of legal costs of the plaintiffs. I assume this would include attorney fees but am not sure. There is no additional information concerning arrangements for fees between the plaintiffs and their attorneys. I am not sure if this represents the compensation for the civil complaint, the criminal trial or both.

Also, I think I remember reading that Maresca agreed to take the case for the advertisement (I cannot think of a better word) it would give, not for the money (I could be thinking of another attorney, I am not 100 percent certain of this).

Page 394:

Christianahannah

So based on your post is he handling the Kercher families civil complaint “pro bono” and the Italian State is paying for the criminal case?