• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Their Return

How did you do the cutting?

Did you employ any machines, because THAT is the crux of my argument.

Work by hand, is NOT the same as machines.
Key hole saw, after our DIY hot-wire knife didn't "cut the mustard".
Try using a simple knife, and a templet to cut ANY material you like, and I'll show you a margin of error unacceptable to finely fitting masonry work.
The dozen or so airfoils were all square and millimetre indistiguishable from each other.

I also make picture frames for my photographs and cut the mattes myself.
They are as good as or better finishes than any of the frames I have bought or had custom made.

Your argument from incredulity (I can't make it therefore you couldn't) just does not hold water.
 
argument from ignoranceWP

What's really sad is that it's King of the Americas who thinks that he has the most active imagination vs. all the closed-minded skeptics that can't imagine how this could be done. Ironic, even.
 
argument from ignoranceWP

What's really sad is that it's King of the Americas who thinks that he has the most active imagination vs. all the closed-minded skeptics that can't imagine how this could be done. Ironic, even.

Yours is an argument OF ignorance, which isn't an argument at all...you've just ignored the work present, and said anyone could do it by hand, and that no advanced technology was employed.

Pick up a chisel, and gather some understanding.
 
Yours is an argument OF ignorance, which isn't an argument at all...you've just ignored the work present, and said anyone could do it by hand, and that no advanced technology was employed.Pick up a chisel, and gather some understanding.

This would be a good time for you to find a post where I ignored the work present, said anyone could do it by hand, and that no advanced technology was employed. Good luck.

:popcorn1
 
Yours is an argument OF ignorance, which isn't an argument at all...you've just ignored the work present, and said anyone could do it by hand, and that no advanced technology was employed.

Pick up a chisel, and gather some understanding.
Oh the irony.

Pick up a number of different types of chisel, and gather some understanding.

Read the Wiki entry for a brief overview of the types of tools one would employ to shape stone.

Your one foray into the art with only one type of chisel demonstrates just how little experience you have in the art, and therefore your understanding of what is required to shape stone by hand.
 
Oh the irony.

Pick up a number of different types of chisel, and gather some understanding.

Read the Wiki entry for a brief overview of the types of tools one would employ to shape stone.

Your one foray into the art with only one type of chisel demonstrates just how little experience you have in the art, and therefore your understanding of what is required to shape stone by hand.

Look, you need to hit ONE stone ONCE, then come back here...

I've used more than one chisel on more than one piece of stone.

You have ZERO direct knowledge herein.

This is what a modern machine does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zl3lTixmoo

Look at how much stone it removes with each impact. That is a single strike with a hammer.

Here's the fastest chisel for removing large portions of stone with a carbide tip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j-gAf-RJOU&feature=related

Any of the Trow & Holden videos are great.

I own one of their lettering tools.

---

Here's the best in the world using air tools on "marble":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zosvF1Qt0J4&NR=1
 
Last edited:
Have you ever tried to carve granite?
No, I've also never been to the Moon but I know it's possible for people to do that (without the advanced technology we have at our disposal today)... They didn't even have iPods back in the 60's...:rolleyes:

Did this culture use clay tablets, if so could you find one?
It's odd how this double standard of evidence exists.
Your speculations are unevidenced and yet apparently all of mine need to be backed up by evidence.
I'm not saying that is how is was done, only suggesting how it could have been done using things we know were available at the time.
We know they had an abundance of clay because lots of it had to be dug out from the excavations to reveal the structures.
 
...

It's odd how this double standard of evidence exists.
Your speculations are unevidenced and yet apparently all of mine need to be backed up by evidence.
I'm not saying that is how is was done, only suggesting how it could have been done using things we know were available at the time.
We know they had an abundance of clay because lots of it had to be dug out from the excavations to reveal the structures.

I am simply asking you to live up to YOUR standard...

I don't know how the work was done either. I have only speculated as to how many workers it would take to do by hand, OR that there was an advanced technology responsible.
 
This would be a good time for you to find a post where I ignored the work present, said anyone could do it by hand, and that no advanced technology was employed. Good luck.

:popcorn1

Saying the stones were sandstone is misrepresenting the work which you did twice 2 pages ago.

This mistake ignores the level of difficulty present.
 
Been there, done that. You are wrong. My experience was with 1/2" thick polystyrene where we manufactured a dozen or more airfoil ribs for a glider wing of some 20ft.

Just because, in your experience, you have difficulties using a template to manufacture identical cut pieces does not mean others are not capable of it.

This seems to be the crux of your argument.

I can't do it, how could they?Yet the manufacturing industry, since well before the Industrial Revolution, used and still uses cutting templates. Odd, that, since it's such an inaccurate way of replicating a cut piece.None of the other posters here would think that absurdly.

Yep. I am amazed at the number of things that can't be done because I can't do them: launch a Saturn rocket, excise a brain tumor, dunk a basketball, dance Swan Lake, read German, drive a Formula 1 race car 200 miles an hour, design a building that won't fall down, write a math text (oh, wait, my brother did that, so...?)

Some of those don't even require "advanced technology," but I can't do them, so that means they can't be done.
 
Yep. I am amazed at the number of things that can't be done because I can't do them: launch a Saturn rocket, excise a brain tumor, dunk a basketball, dance Swan Lake, read German, drive a Formula 1 race car 200 miles an hour, design a building that won't fall down, write a math text (oh, wait, my brother did that, so...?)

Some of those don't even require "advanced technology," but I can't do them, so that means they can't be done.

You too have misrepresented my argument...
 
I am simply asking you to live up to YOUR standard...
But there is a difference between my speculations being built on what we do know was available and yours being based upon what we don't.
The possibilities I present are demonstratively possible.

I don't know how the work was done either. I have only speculated as to how many workers it would take to do by hand, OR that there was an advanced technology responsible.
But a guess as to how many people would be required over a guessed amount of time does not support your theory. You need to show that the blocks were cut in less time than you guess it would take or that there weren't enough people to do the cutting. Neither of these has been shown, in fact we know that time wasn't an issue for ancient cultures to build monuments, we also know that similar cultures had the man power required.
 
Look, you need to hit ONE stone ONCE, then come back here...
Ah, now you know my entire history of house restoration/redecoration do you. A VERY arrogant, and ignorant statement.
I've used more than one chisel on more than one piece of stone.

You have ZERO direct knowledge herein.
As per usual, you post a definitive opinion on a subject you have no knowledge of, nor evidence for.

Besides being ignorant of my past redecoration/rebuilding experience and skills, you are also ignorant of my travels and interests and especially ignorant of my profession for the past 26 years.

Hint. You'd be wrong to think that I have no experience with working with stone in various forms.
 
Yep. I am amazed at the number of things that can't be done because I can't do them: launch a Saturn rocket, excise a brain tumor, dunk a basketball, dance Swan Lake, read German, drive a Formula 1 race car 200 miles an hour, design a building that won't fall down, write a math text (oh, wait, my brother did that, so...?)

Some of those don't even require "advanced technology," but I can't do them, so that means they can't be done.
I have done no.5 badly a few times and intend to do no.6 next year for my birthday.
 
So, you keep saying it can only be made with modern tools, eh?

Go ahead and prove your claims on the proper way. All I've seen utill now to back it are some pictures and claims that you or anyone else would not be able to do without modern tools. Now, I challenge you or anyone else that believes or sell this stuff to prove it on the right way. How? Simple.

Nowadays specialists can tell you what tool was used to create a given artifact by studying the tell-tale (sometimes microscopic) marks the tools leave. An obsidian blade, a rotary polishing tool, a vidia drilling bit, all of them leave their unique signatures at their products.

So, go ahead and show us the undeniable reliable evidence. Show us these marks. You or anyone else supporting such claims. Anyone who can show us a study where these marks are clearly shown.

Without these evidences, your claim, based on what you admit to be a limited personal experience, is not even an argument of ignorance. Its an argument of arrogance. Arrogant to the point of assuming that, based on a few trials, with not much experience on the subject, if you can't do it and you can't imagine how it could be done, no one else can. You are being arrogant and underestimating our ancestors. You are not honoring their skills, their struggle, their legacy.

I'll be very clear- when I write "you", I mean you and everyone else defending these claims.

Now, why do you think archeologists have never shown these evidences?

And by the way, how would you rank an obsidian blade, an ancient Roman metal surgical blade a modern surgical blade when it comes down to cutting meat and bones?
 
You too have misrepresented my argument...


If you truly believe people are misrepresenting your argument, perhaps you could make your argument understandable. It seems like a combination of constructing a strawman of the capabilities of the ancients, another strawman of the capabilities of contemporary humans, some arguments from ignorance, some wholly unsupported assertions, a substantial amount of argument by being insolent, and most of all, repeated arguments from incredulity.

If you have any objective, tangible evidence that any ancient structures were built with what you call "advanced technology" or that some ascended beings were involved, lay it on us. We haven't seen any yet. Blaming the skeptical folks here for pointing out that lack of evidence isn't really advancing your argument. In fact it is backfiring; it's demonstrating your utter failure.
 
Templets made of...?

Templets are tracings. IF I ask you to cut out 10 pieces of PAPER using this templet, there is going to be a measurable difference between your 10 patterns. Don't believe me? Give it a shot.

Now, try using that templet to cut or shape 10 pieces of stone, and watch the difficulty compound...

Now, if you are going to suggest molds were used, then I think the work may start to match your theory of construction.
Templates can be made of wood, metal, leather or paper, or any substance that allows a pattern to be made.

A template need only provide the repeatable lines or reference points for marking out the work. You could, for example, make a template for laying out a complex shape using a piece of wood into which holes are drilled to mark the corners and reference points. A complex pattern could be marked out using a collection of specialized rules and partial patterns used sequentially. Once the work is marked out by scoring or scribing, the template is removed. If points are made for a geometrical figure, connecting lines can be drawn from those points after the template is removed.

If certain areas must be carved away to a very precise depth or other dimension, gauge blocks or test blocks can easily be designed.

If there is a need for multiple blocks and gauges, and the ones used in the field are subject to wear and tear, there might be a master pattern from which those working gauges are made. That's a standard sort of arrangement in manufacturing.

The possibilities for pattern and template making and marking of work are enormous, and even if we cannot know just what was done, we can certainly imagine many ways of accomplishing this without having to imagine mysterious or lost technologies.

Your example of paper is interesting, because, of course, there might be a measurable difference between pieces, but the pieces will be pretty much the same, within some tolerance depending on how usefully the template was designed, how carefully it was used, and how skilfully the paper was cut. Of course if you trace your template with a magic marker and cut it with kindergarten scissors, it will be very sloppy, whereas you could use a template designed skilfully to compensate for whatever pencil you plan to use, and then cut the paper with a scalpel, and get it very close indeed.

When we speak of those mass produced sandstone blocks, we presume that they are very uniform. But I don't see any reliable reference that discusses the tolerance, and it's quite a jump to suggest that they are so close that there is no measurable difference. If they are tolerably close, enough to interchange, that's splendid workmanship. It is not the work of gods or mythical beings.

by the way, King, I have worked with stone, though it's never been a serious pursuit, and I do not claim expertise simply because I've carved a few pieces of marble and shaped a few blocks of one thing or another. But your assumption that your foray into amateur masonry is unique is just silly.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom