Merged Their Return

[King of the Americas]

Please show your working on how you arrived at this conclusion.

Here's a stone...

I want you to cut it 1 foot by 1 foot, 3 feet thick, with descending square holes, each one 1 inch deeper than the next, and the last one 3 inches from the edges. Each of the holes need to be 90 degrees, and the outter edges have to be exactly 1 foot wide, or we are gona have to toss it in the mock-up bin.

Get to work...

"Wait, how many holes where, again?"

Don't we have some cardboard templets or a note pad where I can write some of this down???

Sadly, "No."...

Are you seeing the proble here???

 

[RoboTimbo]

Here's a stone...

I want you to cut it 1 foot by 1 foot, 3 feet thick, with descending square holes, each one 1 inch deeper than the next, and the last one 3 inches from the edges. Each of the holes need to be 90 degrees, and the outter edges have to be exactly 1 foot wide, or we are gona have to toss it in the mock-up bin.

Get to work...

"Wait, how many holes where, again?"

Don't we have some cardboard templets or a note pad where I can write some of this down???

Sadly, "No."...

Are you seeing the proble here???

I think templates have been mentioned quite a few times in this thread. Did you miss each mention or do you not know what they are or how they are used?

 

[Sean84]

Well, I've seen enough REALLY REEEAAALLLY BIIIIIIIIIG words. Aliens must exist.

Now throw in some colors and I'll even LOOK UP for a while.

 

[Zanders]

Ok, say they had some super advanced technology that they used. Where did it go and how did it never leave a trace of existing? What is your proof that it was all erased from history and what is your proof that people "ascended" with it? You are just filling the gaps with what you want to be there.

How is a group of people taking all traces of a certain technology and "ascending" with it at all logical or based on any evidence? Please show it to me if you are going to keep claiming that.

 

[GeeMack]

Ok, say they had some super advanced technology that they used. Where did it go and how did it never leave a trace of existing? What is your proof that it was all erased from history and what is your proof that people "ascended" with it? You are just filling the gaps with what you want to be there.

How is a group of people taking all traces of a certain technology and "ascending" with it at all logical or based on any evidence? Please show it to me if you are going to keep claiming that.

Oh come on, Zanders. How can the guy answer that? You keep asking those hard questions, the ones that not only can't be answered without admitting how weak the believers' argument is, they can't even be acknowledged. Consequently the UFOlien faithful must rely on ignorance to maintain their belief.

 

[Zanders]

How is it at all logical to assume that people "ascended" and took technology with them? That's quite a leap with very little to support it other than a few relics that you think would require advanced technology. You make the leap to saying they had to ascend and take it with them because it is the only way to explain why there is no evidence for such a thing.

But which is more logical, that they were very skilled and had a very special way of crafting them that is now lost to us, or that they had super technology that there is no trace of left because they "ascended" (which might I add has never happened in recorded history, so there is little reason to beleive that such a thing happened in the past) with it.

If you can't answer any of my other questions, why don't you answer my one about what this "ascension" is and what your evidence for it is?

 

[bruto]

Even my minimalistc experience is more than anyone here has noted. I HAVE used hand tools and 'advanced machines' to carve into granite. Once you hit a chisel with a hammer, and make a tiny bruise on a piece of granite, you will look at that masonry work differently.

I had no failures with my carving. Tools get blunted, the sofer the tool, the faster it happens. My carbide tipped tool needed sharpening twice in the 9 letters I carved.

Whoever built those stones had the ability to remove massive amounts of stone, with literally unbelievable precision. With no written language or metal tools, this would be an impossible feat.

Pick up a chisel and garner an understanding as to what that work represents.

Why do you assume they had no metal tools? They used metal hardware to hold some of the stones together.

 

[carlitos]

Even my minimalistc experience is more than anyone here has noted. I HAVE used hand tools and 'advanced machines' to carve into granite. Once you hit a chisel with a hammer, and make a tiny bruise on a piece of granite, you will look at that masonry work differently.

I had no failures with my carving. Tools get blunted, the sofer the tool, the faster it happens. My carbide tipped tool needed sharpening twice in the 9 letters I carved.

Whoever built those stones had the ability to remove massive amounts of stone, with literally unbelievable precision. With no written language or metal tools, this would be an impossible feat.

Pick up a chisel and garner an understanding as to what that work represents.

Why do you assume they had no metal tools? They used metal hardware to hold some of the stones together.

He has claimed that these were made in the Stone Age. They were not. The Stone Age ended around 2,000 B.C. in South America. So they had metal tools for around 2,500 years when these stones were carved. The stones were connected to each other with metal fittings. KotA's version is fiction. He's created a straw man version of these stones and is arguing (literally) from ignorance.

 

[Cuddles]

This would be closer to your scenario:

"This man is dead."

"How did he die?"

"I don't know. There are no marks on him. It must be 750 giraffes came in through the window and sucked the oxygen out of the room."

Before ascending to we don't know where....

Well of course the giraffes ascended. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to reach the tops of trees.

 

[King of the Americas]

I think templates have been mentioned quite a few times in this thread. Did you miss each mention or do you not know what they are or how they are used?

Templets made of...?

Templets are tracings. IF I ask you to cut out 10 pieces of PAPER using this templet, there is going to be a measurable difference between your 10 patterns. Don't believe me? Give it a shot.

Now, try using that templet to cut or shape 10 pieces of stone, and watch the difficulty compound...

Now, if you are going to suggest molds were used, then I think the work may start to match your theory of construction.

 

[King of the Americas]

Ok, say they had some super advanced technology that they used. Where did it go and how did it never leave a trace of existing? What is your proof that it was all erased from history and what is your proof that people "ascended" with it? You are just filling the gaps with what you want to be there.

How is a group of people taking all traces of a certain technology and "ascending" with it at all logical or based on any evidence? Please show it to me if you are going to keep claiming that.

It is just my theory...

 

[Stray Cat]

I've bought furniture from Ikea in the past (never again!). I managed to follow the instructions putting it together. Ikea instruction sheets do not have any written words on them.

Now, I'm not suggesting that carving stones is like screwing a chest of drawers together at all, but merely pointing out that the written word is not necessary in giving quite detailed instructions as a picture paints a thousand words.

 

[King of the Americas]

I've bought furniture from Ikea in the past (never again!). I managed to follow the instructions putting it together. Ikea instruction sheets do not have any written words on them.

Now, I'm not suggesting that carving stones is like screwing a chest of drawers together at all, but merely pointing out that the written word is not necessary in giving quite detailed instructions as a picture paints a thousand words.

So what kind of paper dod they employ, and can you show me an example of one of these pictured instruction sheets?

OR, are you the one now suggesting facts, not supported by evidence?

Even if you had pictures of the work to be completed, you'd need some sort of way to know the 'exact' measurement(s) of all the cuts. Some claim that all the egyptians had to do their measuring was noted string... Try using noted string to cut recessed square holes in granite, and let me know how that goes.

A picture IS worth a thousand words, but almost no numbers...

 

[King of the Americas]

How is it at all logical to assume that people "ascended" and took technology with them? That's quite a leap with very little to support it other than a few relics that you think would require advanced technology. You make the leap to saying they had to ascend and take it with them because it is the only way to explain why there is no evidence for such a thing.

But which is more logical, that they were very skilled and had a very special way of crafting them that is now lost to us, or that they had super technology that there is no trace of left because they "ascended" (which might I add has never happened in recorded history, so there is little reason to beleive that such a thing happened in the past) with it.

If you can't answer any of my other questions, why don't you answer my one about what this "ascension" is and what your evidence for it is?

Whoever made those, ARE GONE, there is no longer any record of them.

Someone is 'up there', rather than coming from another place, I suggest they could have come from right here, just in a past so ancient that no one remembers.

I think Pumu Punku IS evidence of an abandon advanced technology, at work.

 

[King of the Americas]

Why do you assume they had no metal tools? They used metal hardware to hold some of the stones together.

Agreed, the green around those would indicate copper(?)...right?

So pick up a copper chisel, and start moving stone. Let me know what you learn.

 

[EHocking]

Templets made of...?

Templets are tracings. IF I ask you to cut out 10 pieces of PAPER using this templet, there is going to be a measurable difference between your 10 patterns. Don't believe me? Give it a shot.

Been there, done that. You are wrong. My experience was with 1/2" thick polystyrene where we manufactured a dozen or more airfoil ribs for a glider wing of some 20ft.

Just because, in your experience, you have difficulties using a template to manufacture identical cut pieces does not mean others are not capable of it.

This seems to be the crux of your argument.

I can't do it, how could they?

Now, try using that templet to cut or shape 10 pieces of stone, and watch the difficulty compound...

Yet the manufacturing industry, since well before the Industrial Revolution, used and still uses cutting templates. Odd, that, since it's such an inaccurate way of replicating a cut piece.

Now, if you are going to suggest molds were used,

None of the other posters here would think that absurdly.

 

[GeeMack]

Whoever made those, ARE GONE, there is no longer any record of them.

Someone is 'up there', rather than coming from another place, I suggest they could have come from right here, just in a past so ancient that no one remembers.

I think Pumu Punku IS evidence of an abandon advanced technology, at work.

Argument from ignorance and incredulity.

 

[King of the Americas]

Been there, done that. You are wrong. My experience was with 1/2" thick polystyrene where we manufactured a dozen or more airfoil ribs for a glider wing of some 20ft.

...

How did you do the cutting?

Did you employ any machines, because THAT is the crux of my argument.

Work by hand, is NOT the same as machines.

Try using a simple knife, and a templet to cut ANY material you like, and I'll show you a margin of error unacceptable to finely fitting masonry work.

 

[Stray Cat]

So what kind of paper dod they employ, and can you show me an example of one of these pictured instruction sheets?

A drawing or other visual instruction doesn't have to be on paper. Many cultures have used clay tablets for instance.

If you do a Google Image search for 'Ikea Instructions' there are plenty of examples... some of them quite funny as they have been parodied a lot over the years.

OR, are you the one now suggesting facts, not supported by evidence?

I'm not suggesting 'facts' at all. I'm putting forward speculations on how a culture could have achieved great things without the need to for written instructions.

Even if you had pictures of the work to be completed, you'd need some sort of way to know the 'exact' measurement(s) of all the cuts.

Hows about the age old method of having a pre-cut wooden block?
Keep chipping until this wooden block fits exactly in the hole. Then repeat with this second smaller wooden block. A series of templates and jigs could be used.

Some claim that all the egyptians had to do their measuring was noted string... Try using noted string to cut recessed square holes in granite, and let me know how that goes.

You can't use string to cut holes in granite.

A picture IS worth a thousand words, but almost no numbers...

One of the most amazing things is seeing what can be achieved in geometry without needing to know any numbers.

 

[King of the Americas]

A drawing or other visual instruction doesn't have to be on paper. Many cultures have used clay tablets for instance.

If you do a Google Image search for 'Ikea Instructions' there are plenty of examples... some of them quite funny as they have been parodied a lot over the years.


I'm not suggesting 'facts' at all. I'm putting forward speculations on how a culture could have achieved great things without the need to for written instructions.


Hows about the age old method of having a pre-cut wooden block?
Keep chipping until this wooden block fits exactly in the hole. Then repeat with this second smaller wooden block. A series of templates and jigs could be used.

...

Have you ever tried to carve granite?

Did this culture use clay tablets, if so could you find one?