KSM beheaded Pearl: A challenge for Truthers

[TruthersLie]

The focus of Islam seems irrelevant. In secular and Christian countries attacking innocent people is also seen as abhorrent yet that doesn't stop these societies building huge war machines to violently "defend their interests", killing thousands of innocent people in the process. Do you also regard these war machines' soldiers as crazy?

Ah but my point was in direct reply to someone painting with a massively broad brush against ALL muslims.

Any "right thinking" individual of ANY faith will agree that the murder of 3000 innocent people could only be carried out by crazy people... especially if these people claim to be "practicing" any faith.

As for your last question, I often find people who spend trillions of dollars on weapons which you purposefully intend to never use (nuclear weapons) as an act of insanity. The same of those who feel the need to use force on others.

But that is a topic for another thread.

 

[I Ratant]

Mutual Assured Destruction kept the nukes in the silos.
But with the less tightly wrapped nations getting them also, the "Assured" part doesn't faze them, when it's vengeance on their mind, and time for the first strike.
I expect something where a crazy bunch lets off a nuke and the retaliation escalates to the actual End Times, and when all the radiation goes away, Ma Nature starts all over, working from the cockroach as the pattern.

 

[TruthersLie]

I tell you what sick is! It is sick to believe that a tortured person is happy about his confession.
A tortured person confesses EVERYTHING just to stay alive. The trick of waterboarding isn't pain. It's the fear of death plus the advantage of little visible damage. Great job!

You do know that he happily confessed to beheading daniel pearl BEFORE he was ever captured. BEFORE he was ever tortured. You do know that right?

 

[I Ratant]

That's not a "confession", that's a WWE "wrestler" talking trash.
He didn't know he'd have to back it up.

 

[Resume]

That's not a "confession", that's a WWE "wrestler" talking trash.
He didn't know he'd have to back it up.

One murder is as good as another to a murdering scumbag.

 

[TruthersLie]

That's not a "confession", that's a WWE "wrestler" talking trash.
He didn't know he'd have to back it up.

Really?

That is amazing.

I'm sure all of the career criminals who have bragged about the things they have done and then been arrested for it and had the people they bragged to used as witnesses will need to have their defense attorneys made aware of this legal defense.

"your honor, my client was just talking ****. He never knew he'd be arrested for this crime. So we claim it is an unjust arrest. YEs we know you have a confession before he was arrested, but we call no fairsies because he didn't know he might be caught for it."

I'm sure this level of legal defense will overturn many of those convictions.

 

[TruthersLie]

.
No shifting.
Those goalposts are anchored in the Constitution of the United States of America, which states "NO waterboarding"!

to who, and for who?

Exactly who?

Or do you want to shift to the Geneva conventions? (which don't actually come into the discussion, other than to give permission to the US forces to actually just murder any enemy combatants they catch on the battlefield as enemy spies?)

There are many methods of coercive interrogation which are more dangerous or less dangerous, but the citizens of the United States of America are prohibited from using -any- of them, from sleep deprivation to flaying.

Can you show me where the citizens of the US are prohibited from using any of those actions by the constitution. Article # and section # please.

Their danger isn't a subject of better/worse, as all of them are illegal.

from where? (if you are still using the constitution as your guide, if not pleae provide the specific legal definition and prohibition in US law.)

And even a freely given confession must be backed up with good evidence.

There are literally thousands of people in american, uk, australian and other western jails around the world who are there because they confessed to the crimes. YOu might want to inform them that their confessions aren't enough to have them convicted. They might want to know.

There must be a lily-pure trail of prosecution investigation and proof for any determination of guilt. "beyond reasonable doubt"... and bragging about something isn't reasonable proof of anything when the situation is as important as this.

It isn't? There are hundreds of folks who are members of gangs/the mafia who are currently in prision for "bragging about something." Have you contacted their attorneys yet?

 

[I Ratant]

...

Can you show me where the citizens of the US are prohibited from using any of those actions by the constitution. Article # and section # please.

...

.
This old thing.
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

[achimspok]

You do know that he happily confessed to beheading daniel pearl BEFORE he was ever captured. BEFORE he was ever tortured. You do know that right?

Any source? According to the authorities especially this confession was a total surprise. No one though KSM has anything to do with it. So who knew it earlier?

 

[dtugg]

.
Anything elicited by torture isn't "backing up" anything.
What is so difficult to comprehend?
Really hopeless.

You don't even know that he was tortured into confessing his role on 9/11.

Anyway, he confessed prior to capture. He was found with a computer linking him back to the attacks. The NSA monitored communications between him and Mohamed Atta. Including the one where KSM gave the final approval for the attacks.

His alleged torture induced confession is hardly the only evidence against him

 

[I Ratant]

Here's something for ya...
Tear off and destroy when it's uncomfortable.....
.
And another quote from that old thing...
KSM -was- provided with counsel, right?
It is the LAW, after all...
.

"Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence"
.
Nothing about ugly ragheads not qualifying for this protection.

 

[dtugg]

KSM is being held as a war criminal. The US Constitution does not apply to him.

 

[Dog Town]

KSM is being held as a war criminal. The US Constitution does not apply to him.

Sadly, I've waited tooo long to read this!

 

[triforcharity]

In my OPINION, no terrorist should be awarded the same rights as citizens of the United States of America. NONE.

The only thing he should be entitled to is the right to food, water, and the basic hygene supplies. Anything after that, he has to earn.

You want a blanket? Give me maps of AQ hideouts.
You want legal council? Tell me where OBL is hiding, or known to have hid in the past.
You want the rights that are given to the people you attacked? Plead guilty, and we'll talk.

That's it. Sorry, that I how I feel. Again, this is my vindictive side peaking through, but that is how I feel.

 

[Jackanory]

In my OPINION, no terrorist should be awarded the same rights as citizens of the United States of America. NONE.

The only thing he should be entitled to is the right to food, water, and the basic hygene supplies. Anything after that, he has to earn.

You want a blanket? Give me maps of AQ hideouts.
You want legal council? Tell me where OBL is hiding, or known to have hid in the past.
You want the rights that are given to the people you attacked? Plead guilty, and we'll talk.

That's it. Sorry, that I how I feel. Again, this is my vindictive side peaking through, but that is how I feel.

No need to say sorry. It's your opinion. You are entitled to it. I agree with you 100%.

 

[Jackanory]

KSM is being held as a war criminal. The US Constitution does not apply to him.

Will he get the death penalty in the USA as a war criminal or can he be sent home and stoned to death?

 

[dtugg]

Will he get the death penalty in the USA as a war criminal or can he be sent home and stoned to death?

He'll almost certainly get the needle if they ever get around to trying him. That is a little too bad. I would rather he get life in prison. Now, I am firmly for killing mass murdering savages but he wants the USA to kill him so he can be a martyr and get his 72 virgins in heaven. So I think that spending the rest of his life locked in a tiny cell would be a much worse punishment.

 

[Jackanory]

He'll almost certainly get the needle if they ever get around to trying him. That is a little too bad. I would rather he get life in prison. Now, I am firmly for killing mass murdering savages but he wants the USA to kill him so he can be a martyr and get his 72 virgins in heaven. So I think that spending the rest of his life locked in a tiny cell would be a much worse punishment.

Life in prison with a bed , toilet and running cold water ...........through a blanket sounds even better. He could tell lies till he dies.

 

[triforcharity]

He'll almost certainly get the needle if they ever get around to trying him. That is a little too bad. I would rather he get life in prison. Now, I am firmly for killing mass murdering savages but he wants the USA to kill him so he can be a martyr and get his 72 virgins in heaven. So I think that spending the rest of his life locked in a tiny cell would be a much worse punishment.

Agreed, to a point. I think his cell should have a ceiling too low to stand up, and too shallow to lie down.

That's my idea.

 

[achimspok]

You don't even know that he was tortured into confessing his role on 9/11.

Anyway, he confessed prior to capture. He was found with a computer linking him back to the attacks. The NSA monitored communications between him and Mohamed Atta. Including the one where KSM gave the final approval for the attacks.

His alleged torture induced confession is hardly the only evidence against him

What? That's shocking news!

1) KSM was lured to and captured in an ISI safe house. The computer wasn't his computer.

2) and that's the shocking part: You say the NSA knew it? They monitored even the final approval? KSM gave it prior to 9/11, I guess?

Who permitted to monitor these communications since Able Danger was ended? What were the consequences of that NSA knowledge?