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Michelle Bachman...Moron?

eeyore1954 said:
No it is not a bad thing but people should be judged by the whole of what they say not tidbit soundbites.

No question that a person who becomes a powerful politician has to be aware that everyword they say is being recorded and can have serious consequences.
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Are you really calling a nationally televised speech intended as a direct, official response to the State of the Union Address a tidbit soundbite? If your prepared speeches make such egregious errors, I really doubt that the whole of what you say is much better.
 
Cleon said:
And it's accurate to call someone a moron when they get the most basic facts wrong and insist that they're true.
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That's no way to talk about people who seem to believe Bachman is a moron.
 
AlBell said:
That's no way to talk about people who seem to believe Bachman is a moron.
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Oh come on. If you guys want to defend her then defend her. Explain how what she said makes any sense at all.

"I know you are but what am I?" doesn't even impress nine-year-olds.
 
NotJesus said:
Oh come on. If you guys want to defend her then defend her. Explain how what she said makes any sense at all.

"I know you are but what am I?" doesn't even impress nine-year-olds.
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I think you misread this.

AlBell was taking a jab at people defending Bachmann by pointing out that they are doing the same thing she does (getting the most basic facts wrong and claiming they're true).
 
NotJesus said:
Don't feel bad. At least you didn't do something really dumb like claim the founding fathers tried to do away with slavery.
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To be fair, a few did give some attempts to add that to the Constitution, but the majority weren't going to have it, especially the southerners.
 
eeyore1954 said:
Thats because there should not be any discussions about whether Michelle Bachmann is a moron. She is a lawyer with JD and LLM degrees. She obviously is an intelligent person just like President Obama is obviously intelligent. She may have views you disagree with, she may whitewash and simplify historical facts (although for my white bread ancestors coming here what she said was pretty much true. Italians, Irish and other they were all able to come here and start a new life without great obstacles).

It is easy to post patronizing things to people who think they are so much more intelligent than others although I try not to.
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While I am sure she has convinced many people of her intelligence and could probably speak intelligently on some issue, with regard to the speech she made it is a fair conclusion that she could in fact be a moron. Now just saying she's a moron is very constructive, but most here have actually stated how she's being a moron as well.

So what do you believe? That she's otherwise intelligent or average but wrong about what she spoke of? Or that she's intelligent or average and lying?

EDIT: Or some other line of thought that perhaps I haven't thought of.
 
tyr_13 said:
While I am sure she has convinced many people of her intelligence and could probably speak intelligently on some issue, with regard to the speech she made it is a fair conclusion that she could in fact be a moron. Now just saying she's a moron is very constructive, but most here have actually stated how she's being a moron as well.

So what do you believe? That she's otherwise intelligent or average but wrong about what she spoke of? Or that she's intelligent or average and lying?

EDIT: Or some other line of thought that perhaps I haven't thought of.
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I believe she is of above average intelligence and is glossing over a few points in her speech to try to impress her audience the same as most politicians do. To me her points about immigrant coming to the US were not lies. Sure there were many hardships and prejudices that some faced. But for the time it was also the place that most choose to immigrate to. In spite of some bad treatment many Irish still encouraged their relatives to come here. My great grandparents did. They didn't stay in NYC very long so maybe it wasn't so bad for them.
IIRC some founding fathers were very much against slavery. The never rest until they died or slavery was gone was fluff.


I never even listened to her speak until today when I listened to her statement in response to the state of the union address. Although I didn't listen that intently.


Not Jesus
I know you are but what am I?" doesn't even impress nine-year-olds.
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But don't you see calling her a moron is the same kind of juvenile argument.


Are you really calling a nationally televised speech intended as a direct, official response to the State of the Union Address a tidbit soundbite?
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What were her egregious errors in her response to the state of the union address?
 
Brainster said:
She was showboating with Geithner and that whole crap about "show me where in the constitution", and then she went off on this new fantasy about how the US currency is going to be replaced.

My vote is for moron. And that she was on with that dope Beck confirms it.
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Wait a minute.... who else have we recently heard complaining about currency? Hmmm? Hint: Tuscon.
 
I'm a moron myself but getting smarter every day. She had time to plan her response and still made unfortunate blunders. I would have checked those facts several hours before speaking myself.:D
 
eeyore1954 said:
I believe she is of above average intelligence and is glossing over a few points in her speech to try to impress her audience the same as most politicians do.
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"Glossing over?" That's how you're going to try to spin this?

No. I almost want to give you credit for trying, but - no.

If I say Robert E. Lee fought for the Union, I'm not "glossing over" the Civil War. I'm saying something that simply isn't so.

And when Michelle Bachmann said,

It didn't matter the color of their skin. It didn't matter their language. It didn't matter their economic status. It didn't matter whether they descended from nobility or whether they have a higher class or lower class. It made no difference. Once you got here, we were all the same.
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She said something that just isn't so. The color of their skin did matter. Their language did matter. Their economic status most certainly did (and does) matter. Their religion, country of origin, all of these things did matter.

"Glossing over?" Nonsense.


To me her points about immigrant coming to the US were not lies.
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It's either a lie, or the result of woeful lack of even a grade-school level knowledge of American history.

So either she's rewriting history for her own convenience, or she's a moron.

Sure there were many hardships and prejudices that some faced. But for the time it was also the place that most choose to immigrate to.
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That's a great attempt at spin, but it still doesn't make her statements remotely accurate.

In spite of some bad treatment many Irish still encouraged their relatives to come here.
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Yet, that doesn't mean that the bad treatment didn't happen, which is what Bachmann claimed.

My great grandparents did. They didn't stay in NYC very long so maybe it wasn't so bad for them.
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"No Irish Need Apply" is not a myth. The suspicion and hostility JFK faced is not a myth. Nothing you have said makes her statements any less false.

IIRC some founding fathers were very much against slavery. The never rest until they died or slavery was gone was fluff.
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It wasn't fluff, it was flat-out wrong.
 
eeyore1954 said:
She is a lawyer with JD and LLM degrees. She obviously is an intelligent person just like President Obama is obviously intelligent.
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FWIW, her JD came from Oral Roberts University. She has voiced some very squirrelly ideas in her public life (creationism, for one).

Even so, I tend to agree with you. I don't think she's really this ignorant. I think she's purposely telling lies. As with several others of her ilk, she seems to want a misinformed electorate.
 
eeyore1954 said:
To me her points about immigrant coming to the US were not lies. Sure there were many hardships and prejudices that some faced. But for the time it was also the place that most choose to immigrate to.
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She said that the color of your skin didn't matter. This is not a matter of opinion; she is factually wrong.

And the black people who immigrated to this country as slaves did not do so voluntarily.

And even you admit that there were "many hardships and prejudices that some faced" which is in direct contradiction to the statements she made.

Have you even watched this yet?

 
I have to say that I don't listen to Bachman much, so I had to actually search for her entire comments...

She does seem to be a bit incoherent in that speech...even when you look at the entire context of her words and not some edited clip of it.

She says this:

"How unique in all of the world, that one nation that was the resting point from people groups all across the world. It didn't matter the color of their skin, it didn't matter their language, it didn't matter their economic status. It didn't matter that they descended from nobility or whether they have a higher class or a lower class. It made no difference. Once you got here, we were all the same. Isn't that remarkable?"
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edit: btw, it's entirely possible that Bachman was meaning Now and not back then...but if so, she clumsily tried to say this

Now this seems a bit odd, but then she says this:

"And we know we weren't perfect. We know there was slavery, it was still tolerated when the nation began. We know that was an evil. And it was a scourge and a blot, a stain upon our history."
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And she says this:

"We also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States. And I think it is high time that we recognize the contribution of our forbears who worked tirelessly - men like John Quincy Adams, who would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country. And we have them to thank for that."
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Which seems a strange...while it is true that John Q Adams did work to abolish Slavery at the time, it wasn't abolished until many years later.

This is probably why I don't listen to politicians for history lessons.

I'd advise you to do the same.
 
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headscratcher4 said:
she would be alone in that assessment. I consider Keith Moon to be a founding father. It has about as much historical validity. Besides, if you listen to her on who the founders were, she is clearly talking about the leaders of the American revolution and those who put together the Constitution. There is no way that you can confuse Lincoln with the framers of the Constitution...unless of course, you are a moron.
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Well I lumped them all together back when I was in elementary school, but then I was young and, frankly, didn't care at the time.
 
Let's see...She doesn't know about the internment of the Japanese in WWII, or that it was illegal in some parts of the country for a white man to live with his black wife DURING THE LIFETIME OF SOME JREFers

Any bids on bat crap crazy and poorly-educated?
 
"MiscegeNation, we need to pull together, just like we always have, from the moment we stepped off the boat, cargo plane, luxury liner or loosely held-together driftwood. All of us, black, white, high yellow, asian-types, Micks, Jews, all of us, we love this country. When WW2 happened and Hitler tried to take over Manzanar, we pulled together to beat world hunger. Isn't that great? Let's do that again, show the world what we're made of here in the God blessed USA."
 
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