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Michelle Bachman...Moron?

Whether she's "smart" or not is irrelevant to the fact that she often says really stupid things.
 
It happened again.
eeyore1954 said:
Thats because there should not be any discussions about whether Michelle Bachmann is a moron.
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Nonsense. In the U.S., criticism of politicians is protected speech.

Do we need to consult Christine O'Donnell to explain the First Amendment!
;)
 
Travis said:
Whether she's "smart" or not is irrelevant to the fact that she often says really stupid things.
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As most of us do but if you are a public figure the odd things you say are harped upon because people are watching every word that comes out of the mouths.
 
eeyore1954 said:
(although for my white bread ancestors coming here what she said was pretty much true. Italians, Irish and other they were all able to come here and start a new life without great obstacles).
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Hmmm. . isn't that sort of like saying that for the immigrants who didn't face obstacles, there were no obstacles?

In fact, almost every ethnic group faced anti-immigrant sentiment, including Italians and Irish, at least in some places at some times in the U.S. What Bachmann said was that that didn't happen.
 
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eeyore1954 said:
As most of us do but if you are a public figure the odd things you say are harped upon because people are watching every word that comes out of the mouths.
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Is that a bad thing--especially with public figures who hold positions of great authority?
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
It happened again.


Nonsense. In the U.S., criticism of politicians is protected speech.

Do we need to consult Christine O'Donnell to explain the First Amendment!
;)
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I didn't mean to say you should not be allowed to say it but I am saying people who are intelligent should be able to recognize that she is not a moron. I don't think calling a politician a moron is really criticism of politicians. Pointing out the things you disagree with and why is what I would consider valid criticism.
 
eeyore1954 said:
I didn't mean to say you should not be allowed to say it but I am saying people who are intelligent should be able to recognize that she is not a moron.
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When I see evidence that she is not a moron, I will recognize that she is not a moron. Right now the evidence - quite a bit of it - all points to "moron."
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Is that a bad thing--especially with public figures who hold positions of great authority?
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No it is not a bad thing but people should be judged by the whole of what they say not tidbit soundbites.

No question that a person who becomes a powerful politician has to be aware that everyword they say is being recorded and can have serious consequences.
 
eeyore1954 said:
Thats because there should not be any discussions about whether Michelle Bachmann is a moron. She is a lawyer with JD and LLM degrees. She obviously is an intelligent person just like President Obama is obviously intelligent.
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Then it's settled. She's nuts.

She may have views you disagree with, she may whitewash and simplify historical facts (although for my white bread ancestors coming here what she said was pretty much true. Italians, Irish and other they were all able to come here and start a new life without great obstacles).
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Total bull flops. A lot of Irish came as indentured servants and businesses advertising for help would often put out signs that included the advisory "No Irish need apply." Catholics were not held in especially high regard in the 19th century.
 
Originally Posted by eeyore1954
I didn't mean to say you should not be allowed to say it but I am saying people who are intelligent should be able to recognize that she is not a moron.
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Cleon said:
When I see evidence that she is not a moron, I will recognize that she is not a moron. Right now the evidence - quite a bit of it - all points to "moron."
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Then some possible explanations are either I am wrong or you are not intelligent or your intelligence is being overshadowed by your feelings.
 
eeyore1954 said:
Then some possible explanations are either I am wrong
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Yep.

or you are not intelligent
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If you really want to think that I lack intelligence because I'm calling Michelle Bachmann--who, I remind you, has been caught simply spewing BS about American history--a moron, feel free. I won't lose sleep.

or your intelligence is being overshadowed by your feelings.
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And you, of course, are being completely objective and honest. *snicker*
 
eeyore1954 said:
I didn't mean to say you should not be allowed to say it but I am saying people who are intelligent should be able to recognize that she is not a moron.
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Well, I see a few options.

1. She is, in fact, a moron.
2. She is mentally unbalanced, and has trouble identifying reality.
3. She is being deliberately dishonest, presumably to court those voters that fall into the first two categories.

I'm not really thrilled about any of those options. I think in the end it's probably a mix. 60% option one, 15% option two, 25% option three. Or do you have a fourth option I haven't thought of?
 
elbe said:
I wouldn't be surprised if she considered Lincoln a "founding father". While it doesn't excuse her extremely poor grasp of history, it does suggest why she may have said that.
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she would be alone in that assessment. I consider Keith Moon to be a founding father. It has about as much historical validity. Besides, if you listen to her on who the founders were, she is clearly talking about the leaders of the American revolution and those who put together the Constitution. There is no way that you can confuse Lincoln with the framers of the Constitution...unless of course, you are a moron.
 
Cleon said:
Yep.

If you really want to think that I lack intelligence because I'm calling Michelle Bachmann--who, I remind you, has been caught simply spewing BS about American history--a moron, feel free. I won't lose sleep.

And you, of course, are being completely objective and honest. *snicker*
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I didn't make any judgement on which choice was right or that there couldn't be other options.

We all carry our biases although I think I have none about Michelle Bachmann although maybe there are other factors.
 
eeyore1954 said:
No it is not a bad thing but people should be judged by the whole of what they say not tidbit soundbites.
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The video I just linked to above (post #88) showed that her comments were taken in context. She really did mischaracterize American history. If she isn't ignorant, then she is purposely and maliciously lying.

This is not a case of a slip of the tongue or a verbal gaffe, or taking a sound bite out of context. And it's really not a matter of spin or opinion.

She said that it didn't matter the color of your skin, the language you spoke, etc. She said, once they arrived here, they were all treated the same. That's obviously just not true.

In the other clip, she claimed that the founding fathers opposed slavery, which is certainly not true.
 
eeyore1954 said:
(although for my white bread ancestors coming here what she said was pretty much true. Italians, Irish and other they were all able to come here and start a new life without great obstacles).
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Very wrong. Where did you grow up? Certainly not on the East Coast.

headscratcher4 said:
I suspect many Irish and Italian Americans have a different view of early immigration and their having an easy time of it...sort of remember reading about "no Irish need apply" signs in the 1830s/40s.
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My father often told me of encountering the "no Irish need apply" signs as a job-seeker in the 1950's.
 
leftysergeant said:
Catholics were not held in especially high regard in the 19th century.
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On a bit of a tangent. . .

I found a pretty neat bit of that history in my 120 year old house (among other interesting stories). I found a lapel pin (probably from somewhere between 1900 and 1930-ish) from an honorary society (which still exists) meant to protect German Catholics --even preserving the use of the German language--against pretty strong anti-Catholic and anti-German sentiment. The pin looks very much like a Knights of Columbus pin, but is actually for the Deutscher römisch-katholischer Centralverein (The German Roman Catholic Central Union).
 
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