Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[CDHost]

How can discussion of the victim's family be off topic? Is argument of Rudy or RS off topic because it's not about AK? It's about the AK case, not about her.

Why don't you want the distress of the Kerchers discussed?

This wasn't directed at me, but I think Withnail1969 is right. The Kercher's are generally discussed as a way of trying to suppress arguments. The structure is:

1) A thorough investigation into the victim was not done.
2) The families of murder victims are distressed by doing a thorough investigation into the victim.
C: Pointing out that (1) creates serious problems in evaluating evidence is disqualified based on (2).

Or:

1) A PR campaign was conducted so as to create fake and questionable evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Solecito.
2) The effect of that campaign was to make it impossible for them to get a fair trial.
3) A counter campaign was thus needed to save their lives
4) This counter campaign is distressing to the Kerchers
C: Hence attempting to save AK and RS are immoral and we should let them rot in some Italian jail.

People get tried for murder all the time. If murder victim's families want a quiet trial they take it up with the prosecution not the defense.

etc...

 

[Mary_H]

.....And with all that I can still say that Valdemort manges to combine the deep motivation of Michael Myers with the drama of the English Patient.

True Kristian is from LA and that accent is close to the Seattle one. Vancouver might be the better choice to recruit an actress then.

Oh no you did not just go there. Describe a Seattle accent for me.

I think the Lifetime one is going to create controversy. What it might do is help the Knox thing cross party lines. Right now the Knox supporters, despite the claims of xenophobia, are still people on the left who are Europhiles. Lifetime might help this issue cross over to Republicans. Except for the fact that Amanda is a poster child for the Democratic party, this is a great issue for FOXNews. Alternately it could increase the number of people interested allow MSNBC (FOX for democrats) to run an hour long special. I'd say this movie has a 1:20 chance of causing the heat to go up.

I think the issue has been a cross-over from the very beginning. Many of Amanda's most avid supporters do not place themselves on the political left; they are motivated by other aspects of the case than politics. Many of her detractors do place themselves on the left -- although perhaps only for this particular issue -- that's why they keep playing the race card and the class card.

Oh yes if this becomes an area of interest. Both sides get publicity. Besides Americans do believe in guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think the fact that the producers at lifetime and the cast couldn't figure it out means that after a jury of her peers examined the evidence there was a reasonable doubt.

My take on the Lifetime producers and cast "not being able to figure it out" is that it is a publicity come-on to get viewers to watch the movie and "find out what happens." The fact that they are following the movie with a documentary of the facts is a pretty strong clue as to what their feelings are about the verdict. Is Hayden Panetierre going to play a villain?

 

[Alt+F4]

Raffaele Sollecito is the real target here. Once you understand that, a lot of things start to make sense.

You're right, Withnail. The Kershers probably (can't speak for them though) want to take every euro from the man that brutally murdered their daughter. I don't blame them. When RS gets out of prison as a middle-aged man he can live as a homeless bum on the streets of Bari.

Since the creepy boy-toy refuses to be a man and speak for himself we will have to wonder which lie he's going with this week regarding the night of the murder:

1. Me and Amanda were at a party at my friend's house.
2. Amanda was with me for the early part of the evening but then went out.
3. Amanda was with me for the entire night, we watched movies, had sex, went to bed.
4. I was on the Internet all night.

 

[Alt+F4]

My take on the Lifetime producers and cast "not being able to figure it out" is that it is a publicity come-on to get viewers to watch the movie and "find out what happens." The fact that they are following the movie with a documentary of the facts is a pretty strong clue as to what their feelings are about the verdict. Is Hayden Panetierre going to play a villain?

I agree. I think it's going to be pro-guilty.

 

[christianahannah]

CoulsdonUK,

To my way of thinking "independent" means that the forensic investigators should go where their training and thinking lead them. The entire appeals documents have yet to appear in English, but short sections have been posted here.

This is true and I agree, however, requests have to be presented to the court and ruled upon. The experts are independent as far as having no allegiance to either side (as paid experts for the defense or state experts for the prosecution) but they cannot subvert the rules while they apply their independent training and thinking. There is always protocol to follow with regards to evidence.

I think Hellmann will allow the independents request (to dismantle the knife) and any others they may have once they have done their examinations and testing of the bra clasp and knife, hopefully before May 21.

 

[Mary_H]

Maresca wants nothing to come between him and his cut of Raffaele's 2 million Euros, and he'll stop at nothing to get it; and of course 2 million is only the beginning. That's what all this is really about. That's why Rudy's role in the crime is minimised despite the forensic evidence and his confession to walking out while Meredith lay dying. That's why they're still clinging to this ridiculous group sex murder theory. That's why they need The Knife, and more importantly, the bra clasp. That's why the prosecution don't want the truth to come out.

I have not seen much from this perspective, Withnail; I'm glad you brought it forward. It makes a lot of sense. I have a couple of questions, though.

1. Is two million Euros that much money?
2. If Maresca is a good lawyer, would it make sense for him to take on such a weak case? Did he really believe he could prevent the truth from being discovered for years?

The money explains the hate sites, the tireless internet spammers polluting comment sections on every Knox story with misinformation and the constant leaks against Amanda and Raffaele. It may explain how the DNA found its way to such unusual places.

Raffaele Sollecito is the real target here. Once you understand that, a lot of things start to make sense.

How does this explain the hate sites?

 

[Supernaut]

Amanda has a higher profile in the media, but of course Amanda and Raffaele come as a duo. An attack on Amanda is an attack on Raffaele.

Raffaele has been the target of the framing which has gone on. The Knife is his, making him responsible for providing the murder weapon. It's still claimed that the bloody footprint on the bathmat is his, when of course it matches Rudy. It was claimed that his shoeprint was found at the scene until his team proved it was Rudy's. The next day his DNA was 'found' on the braclasp.

Follow the money. Nobody's interested in Rudy. It's obvious why.

Speaking of which, look what happens when you step back and look at that bloody print from a distance - specifically, check out the big-toe;

Anyway, you've given me some food for thought. I hadn't realised that the absurd-sounding sums (Millions of Euro) sought by Maresca in damages might realistically be payable from the Sollicito family's wealth

What scum that man is.

(BTW, in "The Monster Of Florence", it's mentioned that kidnap/ransoms became common in Italy in the 60's/70's, largely carried out by the Sardinians who migrated to the mainland in the 60's, and it's since become almost "part of Italian criminal culture". I remember the infamous Getty kidnap in the 70's, where they cut of one of the boy's ears and sent it to the family to demonstrate their ruthlessness.)

 

[Withnail1969]

I agree. I think it's going to be pro-guilty.

How did you make that leap of 'reasoning'?

 

[Supernaut]

I have not seen much from this perspective, Withnail; I'm glad you brought it forward. It makes a lot of sense. I have a couple of questions, though.

1. Is two million Euros that much money?
2. If Maresca is a good lawyer, would it make sense for him to take on such a weak case? Did he really believe he could prevent the truth from being discovered for years?



How does this explain the hate sites?

Hi mary -

Yes 2 million is a LOT - about the same as in US dollars.

Maresca be barking mad for all we know.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Follow the money, eh? Hmmm....I've wondered about that myself. However, why does it seem Amanda is the main target? At least that's how it always seemed to me, Raffaele is hardly mentioned, and Rudy almost never. Is there some sort of campaign against him going on in Italian or something?

BTW, where does 'Biff and Anita' come from? Is that a movie I haven't seen?

Money has nothing to do with what we are seeing on the Internet. I have seen similar behavior with other cases... the McCanns, Jon Benet Ramsey, and Terry Schiavo, the brain-dead woman whose husband wanted to pull her off life support but the parents were against it. Each of those cases attracted some seriously disturbed people.

 

[Withnail1969]

I have not seen much from this perspective, Withnail; I'm glad you brought it forward. It makes a lot of sense. I have a couple of questions, though.

1. Is two million Euros that much money?
2. If Maresca is a good lawyer, would it make sense for him to take on such a weak case? Did he really believe he could prevent the truth from being discovered for years?



How does this explain the hate sites?

Financed by those who have a financial interest in a guilty verdict. Not necessarily the hosting of the sites, but certain people among the 'pro-guilt' faction.

The Machine/Harry Rag for instance. That's a full time job he's got spamming comments sections literally everywhere on the internet the Knox story is mentioned. The admins of PMF. Those kinds of people.

The real 'PR' effort in this case has been conducted by the pro-guilt faction, but not against Rudy. Never against Rudy. The PMF admins have practically declared him a saint. Why would any rational, right-thinking person want to fly in the face of the evidence and minimise Rudy's role in this vile murder? Follow the money.

 

[Mary_H]

Hi mary -

Yes 2 million is a LOT - about the same as in US dollars.

Maresca be barking mad for all we know.

For sure, Supernaut.

I agree with your comments above: "I certainly don't believe that Mignini and his stooge, Maresca, expected the case to get the attention it did from abroad.

"Mignini probably saw a couple of students as easy meat - who's going to care about them except their immediate families?"

I tried looking up a magistrate's salary, but all I can find is that they have been asked to take big austerity-measure pay cuts in the last couple of years.

 

[Alt+F4]

Financed by those who have a financial interest in a guilty verdict. Not necessarily the hosting of the sites, but certain people among the 'pro-guilt' faction.

Are you suggesting that "pro-guilt" people who post on the Internet are being paid to do so? By?

 

[Alt+F4]

How did you make that leap of 'reasoning'?

I don't have the link right now, but the silly girl who is "playing" Amanda suggested it in an interview (ET, maybe).

 

[Mary_H]

Financed by those who have a financial interest in a guilty verdict. Not necessarily the hosting of the sites, but certain people among the 'pro-guilt' faction.

The Machine/Harry Rag for instance. That's a full time job he's got spamming comments sections literally everywhere on the internet the Knox story is mentioned. The admins of PMF. Those kinds of people.

The real 'PR' effort in this case has been conducted by the pro-guilt faction, but not against Rudy. Never against Rudy. The PMF admins have practically declared him a saint. Why would any rational, right-thinking person want to fly in the face of the evidence and minimise Rudy's role in this vile murder? Follow the money.

Are we talking about rational, right-thinking persons? The Machine/Harry Rag may well be alter egos of Peter Quennell, who is simply obsessed with Meredith. He is a retired financier, with nothing else to do with his time. For the most part, the role of The Machine/Harry Rag is to cut and paste.

The admins of PMF, who, when it gets right down to it, are not terribly active or effective, also appear to be motivated more by emotion than by money.

To pay people to blog for one side or another doesn't seem necessary when so many people are willing to do it for free. Three-going-on-four years of paying people to blog eventually will take a chunk of a lawyer's percentage of 2,000,000, too.

I tend to agree with Charlie's take:

Money has nothing to do with what we are seeing on the Internet. I have seen similar behavior with other cases... the McCanns, Jon Benet Ramsey, and Terry Schiavo, the brain-dead woman whose husband wanted to pull her off life support but the parents were against it. Each of those cases attracted some seriously disturbed people.

 

[Mary_H]

I don't have the link right now, but the silly girl who is "playing" Amanda suggested it in an interview (ET, maybe).

That's what I was referring to when I called Lifetime's promotion of the movie "a publicity come-on to get viewers to watch the movie and 'find out what happens.'" The actors no doubt were instructed to say they didn't know the truth, in order to pique viewers' interest.

Why do you call the actress a "silly girl?"

 

[Chris_Halkides]

an emotionally charged issue

Money has nothing to do with what we are seeing on the Internet. I have seen similar behavior with other cases... the McCanns, Jon Benet Ramsey, and Terry Schiavo, the brain-dead woman whose husband wanted to pull her off life support but the parents were against it. Each of those cases attracted some seriously disturbed people.

I agree. Look at the Cameron Todd Willingham case. It was taken up by pro- and anti-death penalty commenters who had a large emotional stake in the outcome. What drove the emotions in the debate was the possibility that a man was executed wrongfully. The Willingham's were poor (I don't know whether they had any insurance or not, other than automobile insurance to pay for a vehicle that was destroyed by the fire). I am not aware of evidence to suggest that money was a factor in this case.

 

[Alt+F4]

To pay people to blog for one side or another doesn't seem necessary when so many people are willing to do it for free. Three-going-on-four years of paying people to blog eventually will take a chunk of a lawyer's percentage of 2,000,000, too.

You're right and there are easier ways to make money on the Internet. Nigerian email scam anyone?

 

[el buscador]

I don't have the link right now, but the silly girl who is "playing" Amanda suggested it in an interview (ET, maybe).

That silly "girl" is 22 years old.

 

[Withnail1969]

Are we talking about rational, right-thinking persons? The Machine/Harry Rag may well be alter egos of Peter Quennell, who is simply obsessed with Meredith. He is a retired financier, with nothing else to do with his time. For the most part, the role of The Machine/Harry Rag is to cut and paste.

The admins of PMF, who, when it gets right down to it, are not terribly active or effective, also appear to be motivated more by emotion than by money.

To pay people to blog for one side or another doesn't seem necessary when so many people are willing to do it for free. Three-going-on-four years of paying people to blog eventually will take a chunk of a lawyer's percentage of 2,000,000, too.

I tend to agree with Charlie's take:

You can buy a lot of spamming for not that much money. Harry Rag comes across like a paid spammer to me. Also, you haven't dealt with the issue of why there is such a strong tendency to minimise Rudy's role, both by Maresca's team, in articles published by John Kercher, and in places such as PMF. Why would anybody want to do that? There's only one sensible explanation in my view.