Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Sherlock Holmes]

I have no doubt the Kerchers would far rather have Meredith back than any sum of money. Maresca is in the courtroom and he is participating. It is reasonable to discuss and critique his words and actions. But let's leave the Kercher family out of it. Please. They have had their loved one savagely murdered and they have had to hear about it on TV and read about it in papers for more than three years now. They are hurting, and we need to leave them alone.

Thankyou Charlie, I totally agree...

 

[Mary_H]

Kaosium

Agree the Italian jurisprudence is different.

I find it extraordinary that someone can be found guilty sentenced then is given two further attempts to prove their innocence, automatically! In addition, even if they lose all their appeals and their conviction and sentenced are confirmed they receive, here’s that word again, automatic reductions in their sentence for good behaviour whilst in prison!

I also find the three-trial system extraordinary. I don't know when the custom was started, but I can't help but wonder whether it was started because so many people agreed that initial verdicts were the result of incompetence or injustice. From an American's point of view, yes, on the one hand, it would be lovely if, as a defendant, you did not have to invest so much anxiety in your first trial.

On the other hand, once a three-trial system becomes a custom, it changes people's thinking. Why take a first trial seriously, when you know there are two more chances waiting in the wings? This attitude will lead to carelessness on everyone's part, whether conscious or subconscious. Along the same lines, the lawyers and magistrates understand that one trial equals one-third the amount of payment as three.

What stake is there to anyone's reputation for winning or losing the first two trials? Any modifications that are made along the way to the final trial can be held to be out of the hands of the initial prosecutors and judges.

And where are the victim’s rights in all of the above? How does the victim or their family piece their lives back together again?

Prison serves no constructive purpose except in the minds of people who believe it is a just response to crime. Some survivors will be able to put their lives back together and some won't, regardless of whether the perpetrator is imprisoned, executed or freed.

 

[CDHost]

The odd thing I noticed about all the pictures I've seen of her is she seems to look like a different girl in just about every each one! Her hair seems to change color too! How does she do that? In that top one you posted she looks like Evangeline Lilly from "Lost."

Girls with blondish hair can often react to sun, chlorine.... My daughter's hair does that too.

Actually I was referring more to Hayden's demeanor, it didn't seem anything like what I've seen in clips of Amanda, more like her character on "Heroes." It was like there wasn't any attempt to actually 'act' the part.

I got you I agree. See this trailer for I love you, Beth Cooper same demeanor pretty much. And I agree Hayden is not Amanda. I think from a PR standpoint that's good for Amanda. Its hard to picture little miss, save the Japanese dolphins (see 2:30 on); deciding it would be a lot of fun to hold down someone's neck so her boyfriend can rape her followed by stabbing her a few times, leaving her to asphyxiate on her own blood. And the only character Hayden plays is Hayden.

Of course my two recommendations.... Kristian Stewart could play that dark easy so then its up to the director. As could Emma. According to rumor Emma wanted to do Hostel III, as soon as she was 18. So maybe we should consider ourselves blessed that Hayden got the role after all...

Truthfully I don't keep track of young actresses well enough to make a suggestion. I saw the first Harry Potter movie just to see what the fuss was all about and I will admit that outside Alan Rickman's role I thought the little girl was the most engaging character, I thought she was hilarious, I guess she's all grown up now.

No she's not grown up. She a quirky college student at Brown. Sort of excited about adulthood but then quickly reverts to playing younger / little girl if she gets treated like a woman. Gotta admit perfect to relate to Amanda's way of handling stress.

 

[CDHost]

On the other hand, once a three-trial system becomes a custom, it changes people's thinking. Why take a first trial seriously, when you know there are two more chances waiting in the wings? This attitude will lead to carelessness on everyone's part, whether conscious or subconscious. Along the same lines, the lawyers and magistrates understand that one trial equals one-third the amount of payment as three.

Agree 100%.

Prison serves no constructive purpose except in the minds of people who believe it is a just response to crime. Some survivors will be able to put their lives back together and some won't, regardless of whether the perpetrator is imprisoned, executed or freed.

Agree 200%.

 

[Kaosium]

If there was a Pulitzer Prize for best blog - I would nominate this one.

Thank you, and for the information earlier about contingency practices, I was unaware of that.

Someone could win a Pulitzer off this case, it won't be me though obviously.

 

[Kaosium]

Chris, your not understanding what I am saying here, the list was just a small example of some of the things I've heard FOAKers say, that list though, can only be made by Foakers, and not by any one of them alone, one could start it but others have to add to it. In no way am I saying I believe any single one of them but even I will admit not all of them could be true either.

Thank you for putting that together, Sherlock.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who fell for the fairies' picture hoax and (may have) perpetrated the Piltdown Man hoax would have been proud of the illusion Mignini created in this case.

 

[Justinian2]

Totally agree.
I went thru four years of hell as co-executor of my wife's aunt's estate. Some (but not all fortunately) heirs in the guise of being concerned for what the deceased aunt would want (in addition to the clear instructions in her will) really wanted their money and they wanted it now. From the experience I adopted the following adage:
"Its never about the money EXCEPT its ALWAYS about the money" Needless to say I lost a lot of my faith in my fellow man (and woman) Maybe that experience is why Amanda's naivete resonates with me.

Isn't it odd how events like that change our perception of the world forever?

 

[Kaosium]

I got you I agree. See this trailer for I love you, Beth Cooper same demeanor pretty much. And I agree Hayden is not Amanda. I think from a PR standpoint that's good for Amanda. Its hard to picture little miss, save the Japanese dolphins (see 2:30 on); deciding it would be a lot of fun to hold down someone's neck so her boyfriend can rape her followed by stabbing her a few times, leaving her to asphyxiate on her own blood. And the only character Hayden plays is Hayden.

Yes, that's true about the PR standpoint, it is also tough to imagine the little girl from "Revenge of the Titans" playing a sociopath, thus I don't think we'll get much of 'Foxy Knoxy.'

Of course my two recommendations.... Kristian Stewart could play that dark easy so then its up to the director. As could Emma. According to rumor Emma wanted to do Hostel III, as soon as she was 18. So maybe we should consider ourselves blessed that Hayden got the role after all...

I've never seen Kristian Stewart in anything so I couldn't judge. The only good thing I've heard about that series is '...and Buffy slays Edward, The End.'

No she's not grown up. She a quirky college student at Brown. Sort of excited about adulthood but then quickly reverts to playing younger / little girl if she gets treated like a woman. Gotta admit perfect to relate to Amanda's way of handling stress.

She displayed some talent then, that could have been a tough role to make endearing. It wasn't enough to make me watch any more Harry Potter movies though. I think she would be a decent choice, but I'm hoping the next one will be based on the book Grisham plans to write, he'll get to the bottom of it. He knows cops, lawyers, politics...he can put it all in perspective. Done right someone should be able to get an academy nod portraying Mignini's decent into darkness.

However...then we get the 'accent wars.' Perhaps you're not aware, but it is the absolute considered opinion of every Briton in existence that no American can ever do a passable British accent. Thus, in revenge there's an element of Americans who absolutely insist that no Briton can do an American accent. It can be entertaining to behold.

One thing that I've been pondering is just what effect this first one will have on the case. What I'm wondering is, will the fact it is during the appeal will cause it to get some attention and create controversy, regardless of how it 'spins' the murder.

Also, I wonder if just implying she might have done it would cause some media to seek out any of the numerous people currently campaigning against her incarceration.

 

[Chris C]

Chris, your not understanding what I am saying here, the list was just a small example of some of the things I've heard FOAKers say, that list though, can only be made by Foakers, and not by any one of them alone, one could start it but others have to add to it. In no way am I saying I believe any single one of them but even I will admit not all of them could be true either.

FOAKers are claiming that Dr. Lalli didn't tie up the intestines correctly? I have heard them talk about not weighing the body, but I have never heard any of them question the results of the autopsy. I have heard them question the Prosecutions interpretation of the autopsy results though.

 

[Onofarar]

Pursuing the civil part concurrently is inherently hostile and the fact that is available to the jury of the other trial serves to damn the defendants. It is in fact unusual in Italy, and just another odd thing about that justice system that doesn't actually serve the cause of justice in my view. My venom in this regard is directed solely at the Jackal, Maresca, not the family which as you note would follow the advice of the lawyer they hired.

It also made the job of defending AK and RS doubly difficult because the defense team (perhaps already overmatched in AK's case) had to prepare and defend against attacks from two directions the prosecution and Maresca. Plus AK's team also had Patrick's slander suit to deal with.

BTW - does anyone know if Maresca showed up and represented the Kercher family at Rudy's trial and appeals?

 

[Chris C]

It also made the job of defending AK and RS doubly difficult because the defense team (perhaps already overmatched in AK's case) had to prepare and defend against attacks from two directions the prosecution and Maresca. Plus AK's team also had Patrick's slander suit to deal with.

BTW - does anyone know if Maresca showed up and represented the Kercher family at Rudy's trial and appeals?

Plus the prosecution presented their case like firing a round of bird shot. It covered everything except UFO landings and Elvis sightings.

 

[snook1]

I have to admit, I'm looking forward to that movie. It looks like they are going to show both sides and if 3 1/2 years into this there are two equal sides she's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Is there a way to make it available to download or for youtube? Beacuse I can't watch it from there, it seems only Us viewers can.

http://www.mylifetime.com/movies/am...tended-preview?cmpid=twitter-lifetime-012611a

 

[Withnail1969]

I completely agree with Mr Wilkes, let’s leave the Kercher family alone.

Stop constantly talking about them then. You don't really want them to be 'left alone', you want to wheel them out when it suits you to stifle arguments in favour of innocence.

May I remind you that you're also off-topic for this thread, which is about the innocence or guilt of Amanda Knox. Discussion of the victim's family's feelings is irrelevant to moving the thread forwards.

 

[lionking]

Stop constantly talking about them then. You don't really want them to be 'left alone', you want to wheel them out when it suits you to stifle arguments in favour of innocence.

May I remind you that you're also off-topic for this thread, which is about the innocence or guilt of Amanda Knox. Discussion of the victim's family's feelings is irrelevant to moving the thread forwards.

How can discussion of the victim's family be off topic? Is argument of Rudy or RS off topic because it's not about AK? It's about the AK case, not about her.

Why don't you want the distress of the Kerchers discussed?

 

[Withnail1969]

You think its all abput money for the Kerchers? My God....

Nobody can bring back Meredith. The next best option is to extract 2 million euros from Raffaele in a civil suit, and that, I believe, is the primary focus of the proscution team.

 

[lionking]

Nobody can bring back Meredith. The next best option is to extract 2 million euros from Raffaele in a civil suit, and that, I believe, is the primary focus of the proscution team.

Yeah? Evidence.

 

[Withnail1969]

How can discussion of the victim's family be off topic? Is argument of Rudy or RS off topic because it's not about AK? It's about the AK case, not about her.

Why don't you want the distress of the Kerchers discussed?

I don't wish to discusss the matter further.

 

[Withnail1969]

Yeah? Evidence.

It's obvious. Once I found out about the money, a lot of previously inexplicable things started to make sense. All you have to do is look.

 

[lionking]

It's obvious. Once I found out about the money, a lot of previously inexplicable things started to make sense. All you have to do is look.

Evidence? You have none. Admit it.

 

[Withnail1969]

Evidence? You have none. Admit it.

I can't discuss this issue any further with you. Sorry.