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Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Hi Kaosium,
I recall reading a long time ago on Perugia Shock that there were 13 unattributed fingerprints found in the gals apartment.

There was an article (UK Sun I think) that's been posted a couple of times, I believe by Chris C last time, where it was said there were a number extraneous DNA traces in the murder room itself, I think the number was like 17, but my memory might be failing me. However, most of these could be entirely irrelevant, just evidence that at sometime before or after the murder they'd been in the room. Something swabbed from a desk or something probably has nothing to do with the murder.

That's the thing I was getting at with Rudy's evidence at the scene. He left gobs of it relatively, and if he wasn't the actual murderer how did he leave so much and the hypothetical 'real' murderer leave either nothing at all in the direct vicinity of the body, or so little it was dismissed with the stuff left by the others?

I wonder if they ever did further testing to see if they could find out whose fingerprints these might have been?

I doubt it. They had what they wanted, why 'confuse' the jury? :rolleyes:
 
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Chris,

I believe your second photograph is NOT a photograph of Merdith's boots. It's a photograph of a shopping bag. Here's a close-up of the same image....

[qimg]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/rh204.JPG[/qimg]

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Sorry was still adding pictures. i put a better explanation up of the pictures. The side view of the bed was to show there is no bloody boot sitting where the blood on the floor is. There is a bag there instead.
 
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Gosh reading most of these posts takes me back to Candace Dempsey blog on SeattlePI, I recall reading those post thinking the defence might have a case. The defence never showed! I wonder how the appeal will unfold once it actually starts; witnesses, evidence etc.

The defense showed, I've heard that whatever other mistakes it might have made the closing remarks were brilliant...but at that point the press was gone. Empty chairs compared to being filled to capacity for the prosecution's case. The 'story' was 'Foxy Knoxy and her Boytoy get theirs' not Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito on trial for their lives.
 
I thought Maresca was working pro bono.

Seriously? He actually said that? Is that even possible, being as this case must be taking up a huge percentage of his ability to serve clients, is he independently wealthy or something? Contingency basis perhaps?
 
Well there is definately some kinda face covering, because if you watch closely, there is a black object from about the nose down covering the persons face. Also at the 21 second mark, you can just see the edge of a white face, with what appears to be goggles on. Though isn't that video from a different camera and not the one by the driveway.

You guys must have a better monitor than I have on this laptop. I can't see a damn thing that I'm sure of about his features or what's on his head. That 'white face' looks like it might be a reflection off the streetlight or whatever that is.
 
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You guys must have a better monitor than I have on this laptop. I can't see a damn thing that I'm sure of about his features or what's on his head. That 'white face' looks like it might be a reflection off the streetlight or whatever that is.

Rudy Guede isn't light skinned black. He is about medium. There would be no reflection off his skin. Go to the 21 second mark. Dont play, just slide over. You will see a small section of the persons face. Then a few seconds later head turns again and you see the light skinned face again. The person is wearing either a helmet or has a hood and fleece(balaclava) on.
 
Go to the 21 second mark. Dont play, just slide over. You will see a small section of the persons face. Then a few seconds later head turns again and you see the light skinned face again.

This could esily be the same issue as the "no planers" at the 911 conspiracy section. Compressed video isn't meant for taking still frames from
 
Hendry's used photographs to conduct his analysis, not the actual fabric. You have read the arguments by myself and katy_did which are grounded in observable facts about bras, as well as a long history in wearing and handling them, with an actual experiment thrown in and you still cannot believe Hendry can be wrong about this. A bra clasp simply cannot be torn off at this point Charlie.

As I said, I can go either way on this.

I think he is wrong about the boots under the bed being the same pair that Meredith's head rested on in a pool of blood. Rinaldi's report shows another pair of boots which Meredith owned which resemble those under the bed more closely IMO. Show me a much higher resolution photo which proves they are indeed one and the same and I'll believe it. In the photos on Bruce's site they look more like her other pair of boots.

Both Hendry and I have examined the photos with great care. Take a look at this composite:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/boots.jpg

In the lower left you see the photo of the boots under the bed as it appeared in the pdf of Hendry's analysis, which I prepared. I tweaked the gamma to make the contour easier to see. Therefore, I have inserted the un-retouched photo above the edited photo, so you can see I'm not trying to mislead anyone.

The upper right photo from Rinaldi's report shows the bloody boots. The lower-right photos show the sharp-toed boots. You can see that the sole of the boot under the bed is that of the bloody boot, not the darker sole of the sharp-toed boot. The sharp-toed boots appear in the foreground of the photos on the left. One of them is partially covered with other shoes.

I'm pretty sure I've never suggested Kermit is "the only reliable forensic authority with regard to this case" or anything even remotely close to that. In fact the only time I think I referred to Kermit was to correct him on a dimension of the window frame he made in a post here long ago.
As far as what others write, experts or not, I believe what makes sense to me. Hendry's claim on the bra clasp doesn't, and in this regard I think I know a little more than him about bras.
As far as the others you mentioned, I don't think I've ever referenced either one in a single post. Hardly fair.

OK, I accept that my rhetoric is a bit overdone. But I'm trying to make a point: a lot of genuinely independent experts have examined this case and have concluded that the case against Amanda and Raffaele is bogus. Hendry, in particular, has mapped the bloodstains and other evidence in the crime scene photos to a specific scenario that makes perfect sense. Certain details - was the bra cut, or was it ripped apart? - are open for debate. But others are not:

- There can be no doubt that Meredith was standing next to her bed when the first wound was inflicted.

- There can be no doubt that the skirmish moved diagonally across the room, to the area between her desk and the window.

- There can be no doubt that she was on her knees, facing her wardrobe, when the fatal wound was inflicted by an assailant who was behind her, holding the knife in his right hand.

- There can be no doubt that she was dragged and disrobed after she had ceased to struggle, but while she was still gasping for breath.

Could two other people have been present, watching and rooting for this homicidal maniac, and possibly aiding him? I can't prove they weren't. But I can tell you the crime scene photos, the pathology, and the physical evidence all point to a swift, brutal murder committed by one individual armed with a small pocketknife.
 
This could esily be the same issue as the "no planers" at the 911 conspiracy section. Compressed video isn't meant for taking still frames from

Actually the real conspiracy theory is claiming that video is any of them. Its a parking garage. The camera activates everytime someone enters or leaves by car. There are no pictures of any of them entering by vehicle into the parking garage. None of them needed to enter the parking garage to walk down the drive way. All three would have had to pass up the entrance to the home to go into the parking garage. Plus if I remember correctly that video that everyone claimed was knox or guede is at the far end of the parking garage.
 
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CDHost,

It's ambiguous in Raffaele's Diary just where Raffaele is supposed to have pricked Meredith with the knife. But his father says explicitly that the event happened at the cottage..............


"Meanwhile, the father of Raffaele Sollecito reveals some details: his son Raffaele once went to the home of Meredith and Amanda, with whom he was engaged to prepare a dinner which also attended the same British student. A parlare dell'episodio è il padre dello studente pugliese, Francesco, presente al sopralluogo nella casa del delitto. A mention of the episode is the father of the student from Puglia, Francesco, to visit the home of this crime. Una circostanza che il medico ha spiegato di «sapere per certo». A fact that the doctor explained that "to know for sure." Secondo Francesco Sollecito è a questa cena alla quale il figlio fa riferimento quando ipotizza di avere ipoteticamente punto Mez con un coltello, quello poi sequestrato a casa sua e sul quale è stato trovato il dna sia di Mez che di Amanda. According to Francesco Sollecito is at this dinner to which the child is assumed to have a reference when hypothetically Mez point with a knife, what then arrested at his home and on which it was found that the DNA of Amanda Mez." December 18, 2007 (See page 4 on this website.)

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Wow, thanks for providing this! This pretty much confirms my belief that Raf was saying the knife incident happened at the cottage, not his place, and makes the story in his diary seem much less a lie.
 
Actually the real conspiracy theory is claiming that video is any of them. Its a parking garage. The camera activates everytime someone enters or leaves by car. There are no pictures of any of them entering by vehicle into the parking garage. None of them needed to enter the parking garage to walk down the drive way. All three would have had to pass up the entrance to the home to go into the parking garage. Plus if I remember correctly that video that everyone claimed was knox or guede is at the far end of the parking garage.

I would love to be able to claim the video shows Guede arriving alone at the cottage. But its impossible to tell. It's the same with the video that purportedly shows Meredith arriving home.
 
Interesting article here and if the quotes are accurate Amanda is not holding back her feelings about Curatolo:

No, she sounds quite displeased with dear Toto. How could she say such mean things about a poor unfortunate fellow who did nothing more than lie through his teeth to try to ensure she spent most of her life in a cage? Doesn't she know words can hurt people's feelings?! What's twenty-six years in prison compared to the distress Curatolo might feel when he comes across that article in his daily reading? The poor man might cry!

PERUGIA - More and more similar and even stronger. Both have a blue coat, double breasted hooded duffle coat for him and for her. Only the hair, blond, now are different. She is making them grow again, while the ex-boyfriend left the Franciscan and now brings them cut short and saucy. New look and above all, new smile. There is a new light in the eyes of both. Are strongest. They feel stronger. The process is reopened and the words of Amanda: "Now come out the lies and liars."

Have we discovered a charming new feature of google translate? I went to the translated article and copied a part I wanted to comment on and when I pasted it, the Italian came back interspersed with the English! The same thing happened to you, and I'd wondered why you 'included' the Italian.

(if anyone doesn't want to know what I think of this new 'feature' then don't reveal the invisible part, just skip over it)

Well, Mr. Google, I have something to say to you. I don't read Italian which is why I'm using this bloody feature! You have already caused me brain hemorrhages on multiple occasions trying to decipher the drivel that comes out when I insert perfectly good Italian. Allow me to give you a thwack with the cluestick: words I can't read between sentences I can barely read does not help the comprehension process! It's like setting my face on fire and putting it out with a track shoe. However as the final indignity I must hide what I feel about it lest by some miracle you see it and decide to put advertisements between each paragraph as well to further 'improve' my experience!

As for the part I excerpted, is it just me or does it seem a fair number of articles we see from Italian sources seem unnaturally interested in Amanda's and Raffaeles' hair, their clothes and demeanor? It's like everyone wants to be a fashion critic there. Is that just Italian culture, or is it just every other article is from the Italian equivalent of Cosmo?

On the whole it looks like a positive article, and that's especially good to see from an Italian source. Does anyone know whether something from here would be seen in Perugia? It appears that it's a Roman paper, thus my guess is it would also serve Perugia.
 

Umm, OK. I think you'll find all these photos of the purpoted murder weapon were taken by the Polizia Scientifica. Who else did you think took them? Or are you accusing them of substituting a different knife for reasons unknown?

I suppose I could ask Frank to confirm that all 4 photos came from the police but that would seem somewhat idiotic since that's clearly where he got them.

I don't know what you are trying to argue when you say 'I can't swear it's the same knife in all the pictures'.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_ferret

"Stick a ferret up their trousers!" LOL!

Great line! It would be nice if someone would stick one of those overgrown rats in Mignini's pants. Or those eight policemen. Ferrets all around, I say
Is that a British-only publication? It sounds familiar somehow, although perhaps I'm confusing it with 'Spy' which was a trendy mag here for a while.

Here's our contribution to the world of 'investigative journalism.' It's all grown up and become big time and moved to New York City, but they remember their roots and we still get our own 'special edition.'

There's sometimes more truth in satire. ;)

Heh. But ferrets aren't rodents, they are very highly adapted predators, a domesticated species of the weasel family.
 
No, she sounds quite displeased with dear Toto. How could she say such mean things about a poor unfortunate fellow who did nothing more than lie through his teeth to try to ensure she spent most of her life in a cage? Doesn't she know words can hurt people's feelings?! What's twenty-six years in prison compared to the distress Curatolo might feel when he comes across that article in his daily reading? The poor man might cry!



Have we discovered a charming new feature of google translate? I went to the translated article and copied a part I wanted to comment on and when I pasted it, the Italian came back interspersed with the English! The same thing happened to you, and I'd wondered why you 'included' the Italian.

(if anyone doesn't want to know what I think of this new 'feature' then don't reveal the invisible part, just skip over it)

Well, Mr. Google, I have something to say to you. I don't read Italian which is why I'm using this bloody feature! You have already caused me brain hemorrhages on multiple occasions trying to decipher the drivel that comes out when I insert perfectly good Italian. Allow me to give you a thwack with the cluestick: words I can't read between sentences I can barely read does not help the comprehension process! It's like setting my face on fire and putting it out with a track shoe. However as the final indignity I must hide what I feel about it lest by some miracle you see it and decide to put advertisements between each paragraph as well to further 'improve' my experience!

As for the part I excerpted, is it just me or does it seem a fair number of articles we see from Italian sources seem unnaturally interested in Amanda's and Raffaeles' hair, their clothes and demeanor? It's like everyone wants to be a fashion critic there. Is that just Italian culture, or is it just every other article is from the Italian equivalent of Cosmo?

On the whole it looks like a positive article, and that's especially good to see from an Italian source. Does anyone know whether something from here would be seen in Perugia? It appears that it's a Roman paper, thus my guess is it would also serve Perugia.

That is funny. What happened to the date range for Google search? Is a year as far back as they go now?
 
The defense showed, I've heard that whatever other mistakes it might have made the closing remarks were brilliant...but at that point the press was gone. Empty chairs compared to being filled to capacity for the prosecution's case. The 'story' was 'Foxy Knoxy and her Boytoy get theirs' not Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito on trial for their lives.
Not sure I understand your comment about the press visibility or the lack of it during the trial or it's relevance. This appeal will be won or lost in the Perugian court room as should be, not in the news media. As I read on ABC news blog, Amanda and I assume Raffaele supporters seem to function as political rebuttal unit during an election campaign. As for the media, do you accept the reports that jury member(s) were in tears after Amanda addressed the court?
 
Umm, OK. I think you'll find all these photos of the purpoted murder weapon were taken by the Polizia Scientifica. Who else did you think took them? Or are you accusing them of substituting a different knife for reasons unknown?

I suppose I could ask Frank to confirm that all 4 photos came from the police but that would seem somewhat idiotic since that's clearly where he got them.

I don't know what you are trying to argue when you say 'I can't swear it's the same knife in all the pictures'.

I am not certain but it could be that the "stainless" steel has just become discolored near the handle. This is very common with older flatware. The outer layer of Chromium eventually wears down and what appears to be dirt is just the iron color that composes most of the steel.
 
Umm, OK. I think you'll find all these photos of the purpoted murder weapon were taken by the Polizia Scientifica. Who else did you think took them? Or are you accusing them of substituting a different knife for reasons unknown?

I suppose I could ask Frank to confirm that all 4 photos came from the police but that would seem somewhat idiotic since that's clearly where he got them.

I don't know what you are trying to argue when you say 'I can't swear it's the same knife in all the pictures'.

It's the same knife. I have those pictures and more like them.

BTW, Greg Hampikian was on Northwest Nights...
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=25064&p=10&n=Northwest+Nights

He did an excellent job of explaining the problems with this case from the POV of a scientist and a DNA expert.
 
I am not certain but it could be that the "stainless" steel has just become discolored near the handle. This is very common with older flatware. The outer layer of Chromium eventually wears down and what appears to be dirt is just the iron color that composes most of the steel.

I don't think so since you can see the smears of dirt on the photo and the buildup of dirt in the indentation where the handle joins the blade. It looks like a fairly new knife which has been perfunctorily cleaned, not an old knife which has been heavily used.

Stainless steel knives aren't made by plating chromium on top of steel. Chromium is highly poisonous. They are made with an alloy of chromium and steel and the blade is of the same composition all the way through. If you've noticed discolouration on such knives it's not due to some outer coating wearing off.
 
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