What does everyone think of the Nuremberg Trials-Did they prove Nazi guilt?

[dafydd]

A little more substantial answer please.
I am serious.
I've never read of anyone harming a Jew because Streicher's newspaper said to.
Streicher himself, was out of political life by 1935 and his only friend within the Party was Hitler himself.

If this is true, how exactly is Streicher guilty of Crimes Against Humanity?
If I am mistaken, give me a link to something I can learn from.

We have another Hitler groupie.

 

[Dogzilla]

Okay.
I went to the Wikipedia entry for Streicher here.
// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher

It is fairly thorough in its description of his life.
While he clearly dislikes Jews, I see nothing that indicates he wants them physically harmed in any way. As far as his diatribes in Der Sturmer, I believe that Germany at the time still had freedom of speech laws.

A quick search of life during the Weimar period turns up this.
w w w. ukapologetics.net/weimar.html

An expose of the most disgusting perverted lifestyle ever brought upon an historically conservative culture. German citizens were reeling in their Great Depression, so obviously they had no part in the creation of this lifestyle.
That leaves Germany's Jews.

Here is another:

w w w. salon.com/sex/feature/2000/11/22/weimar/print.html

A snapshot of Berlin between the world wars includes nudist magazines devoted entirely to children; glittering cabaret shows parading acres of sweaty, perfumed female flesh; and an endless supply of cafes, bars and private clubs catering to gay men, transvestites, lesbians and sadomasochists.

Inflation is so rampant that the local paper currency is good only for toilet paper. Cocaine, morphine and opium are peddled on every street corner. And more than 120,000 desperate women and girls of every age and stripe sell their bodies for a pittance, including mother-daughter prostitution teams and brazen streetwalkers well into the third trimester of pregnancy.

Such was the glory that was Weimar Berlin, a burg American writer Ben Hecht called the "prime breeding ground of evil." Most are familiar with its reputation as a crime-ridden sewer of frenetic debauchery through period classics such as Fritz Lang's "M" and Josef von Sternberg's "The Blue Angel," stage productions of Brecht's "The Threepenny Opera" or screenings of Bob Fosse's lurid, leggy movie musical, "Cabaret." However, very few of our assumptions about that decadent interwar wonderland are based on actual documentation of Berlin's whorish past. And most of it has been filtered through the arid prose of academia.

Now with Mel Gordon's new tome, "Voluptuous Panic: The Erotic World of Weimar Berlin," connoisseurs of carnal excess have the next best thing to a time machine with which to visit that era of blissfully morbid hedonism.

....​

It is this hedonistic lifestyle and everything associated with it promoted by Germany's Jews that Streicher appears to be writing against
Is that correct or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing some things. First, I don't think the Weimar Republic had freedom of speech laws. At least not in the way we think about it in the United States. Bjut that's not important to our discussion.

Second, you mention the general debauchery of Weimar Berlin and note that the ordinary German citizen--a product of a historically conservative culture--was too busy struggling to survive to engage the excessive perversion of the period. Ergo, it was not the German citizen that was the root of this perversion but the German Jew. Let's ignore the fact that German Jews were German citizens, IIRC, under the Weimar Republic.

Why must the Jews be responsible for the debauchery? The abysmal economy and rampant inflation in Germany hit the Jews as much as the non-Jews. Why not the Lutherans? Or the Catholics? Or the Communists? Or the French?

Even if the publishers of these kiddie porn magazines, the drug dealers, the producers of the nude cabarets, etc. were all Jewish, they wouldn't have been able to make any money if there hadn't been a lot of non-Jews willing to pay to watch.

Julius Streicher made his living publishing crude anti-Semitic books and magazines. He was a crude disgusting man but he wasn't a major decision maker in Nazi Germany. Maybe he was helpful to the Nazi rise to power but his influence over Nazi policy was nil, especially after 1938.

The entire International Military Tribunal affair was an entirely unconvincing attempt to disguise vengeance as justice. The charter of the IMT guaranteed that none of the evidence presented during the trial is valid or reliable to the historian. None of the defendants were more criminally culpable than Churchill, Stalin, or Roosevelt and none of them deserved to be executed.

But trying Julius Streicher alongside Hess and Goering in 1946 is a ludicrous as it would be to charge George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Larry Flynt with Crimes Against Humanity today. Streicher didn't deserve to be elevated to the status of a major war criminal but neither was his anti-Semitism a rational response to what he saw as the depravity of post-War German culture.

 

[Dogzilla]

You cannot be serious.

Maybe Revdude isn't but I am. How exactly is Julius Streicher guilty of Crimes Against Humanity?

 

[TSR]

Maybe Revdude isn't but I am. How exactly is Julius Streicher guilty of Crimes Against Humanity?

.
Streicher's incitement to murder and extermination at the time when Jews in the East were being killed under the most horrible conditions clearly constitutes persecution on political and racial grounds in connection with War crimes, as defined by the Charter, and constitutes a Crime against Humanity.

Any other blatant ignorance I can clear up for you?
.

 

[Revdude]

Yes, you are missing some things. First, I don't think the Weimar Republic had freedom of speech laws. At least not in the way we think about it in the United States. Bjut that's not important to our discussion.

Second, you mention the general debauchery of Weimar Berlin and note that the ordinary German citizen--a product of a historically conservative culture--was too busy struggling to survive to engage the excessive perversion of the period. Ergo, it was not the German citizen that was the root of this perversion but the German Jew. Let's ignore the fact that German Jews were German citizens, IIRC, under the Weimar Republic.

Why must the Jews be responsible for the debauchery? The abysmal economy and rampant inflation in Germany hit the Jews as much as the non-Jews. Why not the Lutherans? Or the Catholics? Or the Communists? Or the French?

Even if the publishers of these kiddie porn magazines, the drug dealers, the producers of the nude cabarets, etc. were all Jewish, they wouldn't have been able to make any money if there hadn't been a lot of non-Jews willing to pay to watch.

Julius Streicher made his living publishing crude anti-Semitic books and magazines. He was a crude disgusting man but he wasn't a major decision maker in Nazi Germany. Maybe he was helpful to the Nazi rise to power but his influence over Nazi policy was nil, especially after 1938.

The entire International Military Tribunal affair was an entirely unconvincing attempt to disguise vengeance as justice. The charter of the IMT guaranteed that none of the evidence presented during the trial is valid or reliable to the historian. None of the defendants were more criminally culpable than Churchill, Stalin, or Roosevelt and none of them deserved to be executed.

But trying Julius Streicher alongside Hess and Goering in 1946 is a ludicrous as it would be to charge George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Larry Flynt with Crimes Against Humanity today. Streicher didn't deserve to be elevated to the status of a major war criminal but neither was his anti-Semitism a rational response to what he saw as the depravity of post-War German culture.

Here is a more detailed excerpt from an earlier article I posted.
It is written by a Jew.

h t t p :// w w w .realzionistnews.com/?p=40

How The Jews Prompted A German Backlash
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2007-2010​

SOCIAL MORES BEGAN TO DECLINE owing to Jewish dominance of the media and the arts, promoting sexual perversity and pornography. A leading artist of the time was the Jew and Spartacist communist, George Grosz, known for his pornographic paintings.

The middle class thus turned their voting habits towards Germany’s National Socialist Party whose platform was to bolster Germany against the moral decline caused by influential Jews. By 1932 there were twenty times as many Jewish government officials in Germany’s Weimer Republic as had existed before 1919. Zionists of international attachments were insinuating themselves into key positions in the German administrative machine.

In September of 1933, Dr. Manfred Reifer, a well known leader of the German Jews wrote in the Jewish magazine Czernowitzer Allegemeine Zeitung:

—— “Whilst large sections of the German nation are struggling for the preservation of their race, we Jews fill Germany with our vociferations. We supply the press with articles on the subject of its Christmas and Easter. We ridicule the highest ideals of the German nation and profane the matters which it holds sacred.” ——

Kapner makes it clear that the Jews were both behind and the main supporters of the hedonist lifestyle. In an earlier post I offered at least two other sources, including Hitler himself that support the claim. I'm sure some Germans became part of it, but if you research a little you see that it was mostly a Jewish creation.

 

[TSR]

Kapner makes it clear that the Jews were both behind and the main supporters of the hedonist lifestyle. In an earlier post I offered at least two other sources, including Hitler himself that support the claim. I'm sure some Germans became part of it, but if you research a little you see that it was mostly a Jewish creation.

.
No, as I have pointed out, Kapner asserts it with no actual, you know, evidence to support it.

Just like you and Hitler.

*You* do the research since it is *your* assertion, and please use non-denier sources. It's not *our* job to find evidence for *your* delusions.
.

 

[dafydd]

Here is a more detailed excerpt from an earlier article I posted.
It is written by a Jew.

h t t p :// w w w .realzionistnews.com/?p=40

How The Jews Prompted A German Backlash
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2007-2010​

Kapner makes it clear that the Jews were both behind and the main supporters of the hedonist lifestyle. In an earlier post I offered at least two other sources, including Hitler himself that support the claim. I'm sure some Germans became part of it, but if you research a little you see that it was mostly a Jewish creation.

Why do you hate Jews?

 

[kmortis]

I've had to edit a few posts. Keep the conversation civil and on topic. The topic is NEVER the other posters. If you cannot abide by the Mebership Agreement you signed when you joined this forum, then please stop posting.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis

 

[Revdude]

Why do you hate Jews?

Usually, taunts of "You hate Jews" or "Antisemitic" come after heated exchanges. What in any of my postings gives you the idea that prompted your comment?

I used Kapner as a source simply because he is Jewish, which in my opinion would lend credibility to the original statement. Non-Jewish or mainstream sources, typically would be afraid of repercussions making such comments. So we have to venture beyond the mainstream. Unfortunately, some of these sources are found in rather questionable places, which can lead the biased believer to conclusions of falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus.

 

[Wroclaw]

Here's what I don't get: The charge is, in part, that Jews were responsible for the "decadence" of Berlin gay society. Thus people voted for the Nazis to remove Jewish influence.

First of all, the premise is wrong. The Nazis were elected almost entirely for economic means. A major second reason would be anti-communism. The Jewish issue would have been a distant third, at best.

But here's my real question: How could "Jewish influence" have made people who were not otherwise gay act in a homosexual manner?

 

[Sledge]

Heterosexuality is contained in the foreskin.

 

[Revdude]

Here's what I don't get: The charge is, in part, that Jews were responsible for the "decadence" of Berlin gay society. Thus people voted for the Nazis to remove Jewish influence.

First of all, the premise is wrong. The Nazis were elected almost entirely for economic means. A major second reason would be anti-communism. The Jewish issue would have been a distant third, at best.

But here's my real question: How could "Jewish influence" have made people who were not otherwise gay act in a homosexual manner?

You are missing the point.
It was not just about gay issues, it was a mentality that permeated every area of Weimar culture. What is important here is that this new enlightenment or hedonism as it was called that came into Germany formed the basis for Hitlers hatred of Jews.
Here are his words from my post #207 above:

What soon gave me cause for very serious consideration were the activities of the Jews in certain branches of life, into the mystery of which I penetrated little by little. Was there any shady undertaking, any form of foulness, especially in cultural life, in which at least one Jew did not participate? On putting the probing knife carefully to that kind of abscess one immediately discovered, like a maggot in a putrescent body, a little Jew who was often blinded by the sudden light.

In my eyes the charge against Judaism became a grave one the moment I discovered the Jewish activities in the Press, in art, in literature and the theatre. All unctuous protests were now more or less futile. One needed only to look at the posters announcing the hideous productions of the cinema and theatre, and study the names of the authors who were highly lauded there in order to become permanently adamant on Jewish questions. Here was a pestilence, a moral pestilence, with which the public was being infected. It was worse than the Black Plague of long ago. And in what mighty doses this poison was manufactured and distributed. Naturally, the lower the moral and intellectual level of such an author of artistic products the more inexhaustible his fecundity. Sometimes it went so far that one of these fellows, acting like a sewage pump, would shoot his filth directly in the face of other members of the human race. In this connection we must remember there is no limit to the number of such people. One ought to realize that for one, Goethe, Nature may bring into existence ten thousand such despoilers who act as the worst kind of germ-carriers in poisoning human souls. It was a terrible thought, and yet it could not be avoided, that the greater number of the Jews seemed specially destined by Nature to play this shameful part.

And is it for this reason that they can be called the chosen people?

I began then to investigate carefully the names of all the fabricators of these unclean products in public cultural life. The result of that inquiry was still more disfavourable to the attitude which I had hitherto held in regard to the Jews. Though my feelings might rebel a thousand time, reason now had to draw its own conclusions.

The fact that nine-tenths of all the smutty literature, artistic tripe and theatrical banalities, had to be charged to the account of people who formed scarcely one per cent of the nation--that fact could not be gainsaid. It was there, and had to be admitted. Then I began to examine my favourite 'World Press', with that fact before my mind.

What brought Hitler and the Nazi's into power was his promise to restore the honor of the German people, put people back to work, and refuse to pay any further reparations.

Here is another link that shows the desperation the German citizens.

http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2008/09/the-weimar-econ.html

The Weimar inflation was a period when Germans became impoverished while foreigners lived in luxury hotels for next to nothing. Children were begging on the street while women were forced into prostitution to feed themselves and their families - under barter arrangements of sex for food. Those living on fixed incomes and pensions, including over a million war widows. suffered greatly, while speculators took advantage of easy credit to amass assets and created new industrial empires. The social despair created by the hyper-inflation led many Germans - especially the disenfranchised Bourgeoisie - to renounce democracy and embrace extremist ideologies.

 

[dafydd]

You are missing the point.
It was not just about gay issues, it was a mentality that permeated every area of Weimar culture. What is important here is that this new enlightenment or hedonism as it was called that came into Germany formed the basis for Hitlers hatred of Jews.
Here are his words from my post #207 above:



What brought Hitler and the Nazi's into power was his promise to restore the honor of the German people, put people back to work, and refuse to pay any further reparations.

Here is another link that shows the desperation the German citizens.

http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2008/09/the-weimar-econ.html

What does this have to do with the Nazi scum getting their just desserts at Nuremberg? The only people who have any doubts about the verdicts are Nazi sympathizers and Holocaust deniers,in my experience. Do you believe that the Holocaust took place?

 

[dafydd]

I've heard lots of denier excuses for the Hitler's persecution of Jews,but that they were turning Germany lavender is a new one on me.

 

[Revdude]

What does this have to do with the Nazi scum getting their just desserts at Nuremberg? The only people who have any doubts about the verdicts are Nazi sympathizers and Holocaust deniers,in my experience. Do you believe that the Holocaust took place?

It has nothing to do with the verdicts at Nuremberg, the conversation just drifted that way. As far as Nuremberg, there has been much discussion and debate on the legalities of the process.

Do I believe that the Holocaust took place?
It depends on what you consider the Holocaust to be.

Now if you mean do I believe that Jews were "sent to the left" and went immediately into gas chambers at Auschwitz--then no, I do not.

 

[dafydd]

It has nothing to do with the verdicts at Nuremberg, the conversation just drifted that way. As far as Nuremberg, there has been much discussion on the legalities of the process.

Do I believe that the Holocaust took place?
It depends on what you consider the Holocaust to be.

Now if you mean do I believe that Jews were "sent to the left" and went immediately into gas chambers at Auschwitz--then no, I do not.

Some of them were. So you are a denier,why didn't you just say so?

 

[Revdude]

Some of them were. So you are a denier,why didn't you just say so?

Because I kinda' thought that with a moniker like "Revdude" aka "Revisionist Dude" added to the fact that I continually seem to promote the idea that the trials were unfair would give most folks a clue.

Apparently I was wrong.

So that places you one the other side, I imagine.

 

[dafydd]

It has nothing to do with the verdicts at Nuremberg, the conversation just drifted that way. As far as Nuremberg, there has been much discussion and debate on the legalities of the process.

Do I believe that the Holocaust took place?
It depends on what you consider the Holocaust to be.

Now if you mean do I believe that Jews were "sent to the left" and went immediately into gas chambers at Auschwitz--then no, I do not.

I know what the Holocaust was,it's what the Nazis did to quite a lot of innocent people during WWII. What do you consider the Holocaust to be?

 

[Pacal]

Here is a more detailed excerpt from an earlier article I posted.
It is written by a Jew.

h t t p :// w w w .realzionistnews.com/?p=40

How The Jews Prompted A German Backlash
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2007-2010​

Kapner makes it clear that the Jews were both behind and the main supporters of the hedonist lifestyle. In an earlier post I offered at least two other sources, including Hitler himself that support the claim. I'm sure some Germans became part of it, but if you research a little you see that it was mostly a Jewish creation.

Yes another quote from an article by a obvious wack a loon from a wack a loon web site. The site also as much 9/11 coverup and the "Zionists" did it crap.

As for this lovely quote:

Whilst large sections of the German nation are struggling for the preservation of their race, we Jews fill Germany with our vociferations. We supply the press with articles on the subject of its Christmas and Easter. We ridicule the highest ideals of the German nation and profane the matters which it holds sacred.

Supposidly this was written in september 1933 in a German Jewish magazine. Thats right September 1933! Hitler became Chancellor on January 30, 1933 and by the begining of July had crushed all opposition. A quick check on the web found that this particular meme to be circulating among Neo-Nazi and other hate sites. It also bears more than a little resemblance to crap published in that forgery known as The Protocals of the Elders of Zion. Nope that quote can be dismissed back to the hate filled cesspool it came from.

Regarding the book burnings, considering that they burned the Mann brothers, Freud etc; your book(s) being burned by the Nazis was a sign of your book being good.

Quoting Hitler about the moral state of anything is so absurd that words fail me.

 

[Dogzilla]

I know what the Holocaust was,it's what the Nazis did to quite a lot of innocent people during WWII. What do you consider the Holocaust to be?

Your definition of the holocaust is meaningless.