Merged Discussion of the moon landing "hoax"

[drewid]

Thanks to the guys at Apollohoax.net

More problems not mentioned yet.

Apollo 11
An LM fuel line froze leading to pressure build up after landing. There was some risk of an explosion.


Apollo 12
Struck by Lightening twice on launch
Burned out TV Camera
RTG (radioactive thermoelectric generator) expanded due to heat and jammed in its canister
Both Hassleblads' triggers broke, one was unfixable
Lost the Hassleblad Timer
Bean forgot to remove DAC (data acquisition camera) from its bracket on landing and was hit by it, knocking him out.


Apollo 13
Fred Haise exposed to Measles
Centre engine on second stage shut down due to pojo
Oxygen Tank 2 Sensor burned out setting itself to a false high off the scale reading
Oxygen Tank 2 exploded crippling CSM
LM's spare LiOH canisters in MESA (outside the craft) so CO2 levels rose to dangerous levels
Blocking out Sunlight caused LM to cool too much
Swigart got kidney infection due to lack of drinking water
Shallow entry caused long radio black out on reentry.


Apollo 14
LM docking failure, took 6 attempts to get it to lock
A loose ball of solder in computer panel shorted out the abort button


Apollo 15
LRV steering issues ( front wheel steering jammed IIRC)
Fender broken on LRV
LRV camera mount lost vertical movement ability
Final undocking of LM delayed due to Scott's glove having moon dust in it and refusing to lock. New regulations required spacesuits for undocking after the Soyuz 11 accident
RCS system on Command Module burnt though one parachute's lines.


Apollo 16
Oscillation problem with the CSM secondary gyroscopes delayed landing
Broken Core Temp experiment line
Broken LRV fender


Apollo 17
One of four docking clamps failed to lock into place having to be done manually

 

[Spindrift]

Apollo 13
Fred Haise exposed to Measles
Centre engine on second stage shut down due to pojo
Oxygen Tank 2 Sensor burned out setting itself to a false high off the scale reading
Oxygen Tank 2 exploded crippling CSM
LM's spare LiOH canisters in MESA (outside the craft) so CO2 levels rose to dangerous levels
Blocking out Sunlight caused LM to cool too much
Swigart got kidney infection due to lack of drinking water
Shallow entry caused long radio black out on reentry.

It was Tom Mattingly who got exposed to measles and was replaced by Jack Swiegart as the CMP at the last minute. (Haise may have been exposed but he already had measles.)

It was Haise who got the kidney infection.

 

[aggle-rithm]

"Uh... Houston? We have a problem..."

Funny how (and why) some phrases enter the language, isn't it?

Especially since the original was "Houston, we've had a problem".

ETA: DAMN!! matt.tansy beat me to it! In almost exactly the same words!

I hate the JREF forums sometimes...

 

[aggle-rithm]

It was Tom Mattingly who got exposed to measles and was replaced by Jack Swiegart as the CMP at the last minute. (Haise may have been exposed but he already had measles.)

It was Haise who got the kidney infection.

Swiegart died of cancer years later.

...coincidence...?

 

[aggle-rithm]

I know there was an issue with the latch on the hatch

...Dr. Seuss...?

 

[aggle-rithm]

The movie changed the line to make it more immediate and more dramatic.

-- Roger

I think it had already been modified by popular use before the movie was made. Cultural repetition seems to "fix" awkward phrasing of such soundbites.

I have an edition of "The Book of Lists" that has a list of popular phrases that were either never spoken or were different from how they are usually quoted. Among them: "Blood, sweat, and tears", "Play it again, Sam", and "Alas, poor Yorek, I once knew him well".

 

[Justinian2]

Newer technology doesn't prevent equipment failures/broken switches. So, no, jury-rigging would still be required.

A lot of the unmanned probes have failures of one sort or another. Because the engineers can upload new instructions - or even firmware - it's often possible to work around the problem. Same thing, only in software and remotely.

ETA: One of the best examples of that is the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. Spirit has a broken wheel; they programmed it to drive backwards to work around that. They have functioned something like 22 times their design lifetime; unfortunately Spirit may have finally failed (no communication since March, 2010; they are hoping for a possible communication in the Martian summer solstice next March). Opportunity is still going, though.

Core rope memory is a form of read-only memory (ROM) for computers, first used by early NASA Mars probes and then in the Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC) designed by MIT and built by Raytheon.

Contrary to ordinary coincident-current magnetic core memory, which was used for RAM at the time, the ferrite cores in a core rope are just used as transformers. The signal from a word line wire passing through a given core is coupled to the bit line wire and interpreted as a binary "one" while a word line wire that bypasses the core is not coupled to the bit line wire and is read as a "zero". In the AGC, up to 64 wires could be passed through a single core.

Software written by NASA programmers was woven into core rope memory by female workers in factories. Some NASA programmers nicknamed the finished product LOL memory, for Little Old Lady memory.[1]

They couldn't upload the little old ladies to reprogram the software in the LMs

 

[grmcdorman]

True, but there are guys there who can implement your jury-rigging. That's the point.

Justinian2, you seem to be following the same pattern as other hoax proponents: you don't know your subject matter. You are largely fixated on one or two items (video, AGC), when there is a massive amount of corroborating data:

• Manuals
• Engineering documentation
• Reports (pre-mission, mission, post-mission)
• Media reports (video, magazines, radio, books, other period media)
• Voluminous photo record, not only from the missions themselves but of the entire process, from design through test to post-mission.
• Amateur tracking of at least Apollo missions (I'm not aware of Mercury and Gemini tracking, although I'm sure it happened)
• Video (film) of all missions, including launch, transit, landing/EVA (where applicable) and return. (The Apollo 11 EVA video does exist; what is lost is the original telemetry tapes which contained the original video as a component).
• Complete audio of all Apollo missions (are you aware that, as part of the 40th anniversary of the (ETA: Apollo 11) mission, NASA played back the entire mission audio in real-time on the web?)
• For missions that landed, large amounts of samples that are unique (not the same as terrestrial rocks, and not fake-able)
• Scientific analysis of all of the above
• ETA: Hardware, including LMs, CMs, and launch vehicles

For example, do you know what major revision of theory with respect to the Moon resulted from the Apollo missions?

ETA: This is a partial list. There is more!

 

[Andy_Ross]

They couldn't upload the little old ladies to reprogram the software in the LMs

No but they had 3 crew men aboard to operate things.

 

[Spindrift]

They couldn't upload the little old ladies to reprogram the software in the LMs

So what?

 

[Andy_Ross]

For example, do you know what major revision of theory with respect to the Moon resulted from the Apollo missions?

This is important. A lot of Apollo data on both the Moon and the cis-lunar space environment is still used by scientists and engineers.

 

[sts60]

They couldn't upload the little old ladies to reprogram the software in the LMs

Once again, you've got things exactly backward.

The fixed memory in the AGC was the most reliable type available, particularly to radiation-induced events which can affect all spacecraft, from those in low Earth orbit to those orbiting Jupiter or on their way out of the solar system.

In terms of overall system reliability, the AGC was extensively tested on the ground, and flight-tested multiple times on both unmanned and manned Apollo missions before the first landing was attempted.

Finally, once again you don't seem to grasp the fact that the presence of some of the world's best pilots meant that the system didn't have to function flawlessly every time. The man-in-the-loop architecture provided the ultimate backup, as was demonstrated on actual missions.

Your remark about "little old ladies" amounts to nothing more than appeal to personal incredulity.

Do you have any actual, quantifiable reasons the AGC, functioning in the overall mission architecture, was insufficient for its task? Hint: telling us again about the TRS-80 isn't a reason.

 

[jadebox]

3.7 psi in fact, and no this isn't "infinitely higher than the air pressure outside the suit", it's 3.7 psi higher.

So, what percentage higher is 3.7 psi versus 0 psi? And, while "stiff" may have been a more appropriate word than "rigid" it doesn't really affect what I was saying.

I was making the point that, even though moving around in the suits outside the LM was difficult, taking off suits in the LM would not have been impossible (although the fact that they actually did take them off in the LM is pretty good evidence that it wasn't impossible).

-- Roger

 

[uk_dave]

For example, do you know what major revision of theory with respect to the Moon resulted from the Apollo missions?

That it isn't made of cheese?

 

[grmcdorman]

 

[Spindrift]

That it isn't made of cheese?

Of course not. The revision was the kind of cheese. Long thought to be limberger, the genesis rock irrefutably determined it to be gouda.

 

[X]

That it isn't made of cheese?

It is.

That's the real hoax being perpetrated by NASA, et al.

 

[CptColumbo]

There is also the incident with the Apollo 15 parachutes.

ETA: I see drewid mentioned it, but now you have a picture.

 

[phunk]

When the astronauts were outside the LM, the suits were filled with air. They were inflated to only about 4.5 psi, but that was infinitely higher than the air pressure outside the suit. Outside the LM, the air pressure inside the suits made them almost rigid.

Minor nitpick, but 4.5 isn't infinitely higher than 0, it's 4.5 higher than 0. It would be the same as pressurizing on earth to 4.5psi higher than atmospheric pressure.

 

[grmcdorman]

He's talking about percentage wise, i.e. (4.5-0)/0. Depends on how one defines that result; I'd just say it's undefined,