Merged Discussion of the moon landing "hoax"

[Justinian2]

I think the problem is that Justinian2 is mistaking "flawless" with successful.

During Gemini 4, Ed White almost couldn't get back into the capsule after his spacewalk. They hadn't taken into account the fact that a pressurized suit doesn't bend as easily as an unpressurized suit.

There was also the near-disaster of Gemini 8.

Rarely was the Agena used during Gemini, as either the Agena (or it's replacement) didn't function or something happened to the capsule the crew was in.

There is also a book about Apollo 8 called "Genesis" (the author's name escapes me) which describe the smell inside the capsule after Borman was sick. Imagine having to chase vomit and fecal matter with paper towels around an enclosed space to keep it out of the instruments, with the knowledge you can't air-out the cabin for several days.

Nicknamed the "Vomit Comit?"

 

[Corsair 115]

Nixon didn't particularly care for Apollo and was no big fan of spaceflight in general. He was willing to bask in a little reflected glory (though, to be fair, what politician isn't?), but had no particular incentive to keep supporting it after the successful first landing.

In Chaikan's book it mentions the one thing Nixon did like were the astronauts, who were widely seen as heroic. And Nixon liked the nation having heroes.

In addition to the above, Apollo 14 almost wasn't able to dock with LM to pull it out of the second stage as the drogue wouldn't capture until they basically rammed it in.

Chaikan's book relates the problems on the descent as well. And Shepard's quiet grin when asked just how far he was prepared to go in achieving a landing on the surface in spite of any technical faults.

On Apollo 12 the video camera was ruined because it was pointed at the sun and Al Bean couldn't find the remote camera switch to take a picture of him and Pete Conrad.

He had stuffed into the sample bag. But as it filled up with rocks and dust he couldn't find the camera easily. He might have been able to find it had he emptied the bag on the surface and spread out the contents, but he was afraid he'd never get all the samples back in after doing that. So he and Conrad scrapped the photo idea. Bean did end up finding the camera at the end of the moonwalk but it was too late. So he just threw the camera away.

 

[Justinian2]

The same mass.

Whada ya want? A lawyer with twenty five pages of fine print spelling out all the fine details?

An astronaut with the 200 pound suit (earth weight) has MORE mass than he did without the suit. However, on the moon he weighs only 58 pounds. He as less weight than he had on earth. It would feel like he was on a slippery surface with a maximum coefficient of friction of 58/350 or about 17%.

He would spin his 'wheels' like you would if you were trying to walk in water up to your nipples. The difference is that his foward progress on the moon is not impeded by water. The traction would feel about the same.

 

[jadebox]

... and constant illnesses (usually motion sickness (Apollo 7,8,9 and 13) ...

James Irwin came close to having a heart attack on his way back from the moon, Dr. Charles Berry actually called it a heart attack. Fortunately, floating in zero-G while breathing pure oxygen is a good thing to do after suffering a heart arrhythmia.

As I said before ... the real stories of the real people and the real events during the moon missions are fascinating - much more interesting than the hoax theories.

-- Roger

 

[matt.tansy]

Your statement is entirely possible. However, usually a person doesn't bend his knees at a 45 degree angle just to jump three inches.

In this video of John Young doing his jump salute he bends his knees about 30^o for the first jump, then about 15^o for the second one. He jumps about 12~15 inches in each jump. Extrapolate that to 45^o.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMEn0FFQvw

 

[jadebox]

There were no major problems on the descent to the moon and the return on any of the missions ....

A possible Stundie award nomination?

-- Roger

 

[BTMO]

There were no major problems on the descent to the moon and the return on any of the missions either in your list or my recollection of the landings.

"Uh... Houston? We have a problem..."

Funny how (and why) some phrases enter the language, isn't it?

 

[jadebox]

In Chaikan's book ...

A great book!

Justinian2 ... read Andrew Chaikan's A Man on the Moon if you have any desire at all to actually know something about the moon landings. The book is written for a general audience, so it doesn't get overly technical. But, it is very thorough and very entertaining. It was the basis for the HBO series, "From the Earth to the Moon."

Even if you remain committed to the fantasy that the moon landings were faked, you'll at least have some understanding of the events that you say didn't happen. Right now it's like you're arguing that Columbus didn't actually sail across the Indian ocean in the Kon-Tiki because the mass of the water was too hot.

-- Roger

 

[matt.tansy]

"Uh... Houston? We have a problem..."

Funny how (and why) some phrases enter the language, isn't it?

Yeah, especially when it's wrong. Lovell actually said, "Houston, we've had a problem."

 

[BTMO]

Yeah, especially when it's wrong. Lovell actually said, "Houston, we've had a problem."

Next you'll be telling me that Kirk never said "Beam me up, Scotty!"

(BTW - there is a line between skepticism and an Asperger's level of a geekish, slavish need to be right. Don't cross it...)



(Edited to fix grammer.... grammar... ironically enough)

 

[matt.tansy]

A possible Stundie award nomination?

-- Roger

Nah. He means there were no major problems for the missions that didn't have major problems. What are the odds of that happening???

If he stopped cherry-picking his evidence then he wouldn't be a very good conspiracy theorist, now would he?

 

[matt.tansy]

Next you'll be telling me that Kirk never said "Beam me up, Scotty!"

(BTW - there is a line between skepticism and an Asperger's level of a geekish, slavish need to be right. Don't cross it...)



(Edited to fix grammer.... grammar... ironically enough)

I will bet you 2000 kwatloos that the next time someone says it wrong you will correct them.

 

[BTMO]

I will bet you 2000 kwatloos that the next time someone says it wrong you will correct them.

I'd probably lose that bet.

("quatloos")

 

[jadebox]

Yeah, especially when it's wrong. Lovell actually said, "Houston, we've had a problem."

And it was Swigert who said it first.

The movie changed the line to make it more immediate and more dramatic.

-- Roger

 

[bobc]

Yeah, especially when it's wrong. Lovell actually said, "Houston, we've had a problem."

Seriously, I never get this level of pedantry. What's the significant difference?

You'll be telling us Armstrong never said "one small step for man, one giant leap for... ****, I'll do that again." next

 

[jadebox]

Seriously, I never get this level of pedantry. What's the significant difference?

There isn't any. But, it is not worth complaining about either.

I'm sure I'm guilty of a pit of pedantry in this thread (i.e. my last post, though that was intentional). The moon landings are a topic of great interest to most of us here. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that's read dozens of books on the subject and memorized a lot of, perhaps, trivial details. Sometimes those details just happen to slip out .....

-- Roger

 

[PhantomWolf]

When the astronauts were outside the LM, the suits were filled with air. They were inflated to only about 4.5 psi, but that was infinitely higher than the air pressure outside the suit. Outside the LM, the air pressure inside the suits made them almost rigid.

3.7 psi in fact, and no this isn't "infinitely higher than the air pressure outside the suit", it's 3.7 psi higher. It'd be like wearing a suit inflated to 18.4 psi on Earth. The suits were very stiff, but they weren't rigid, they did have some give in them.

Having said that I would be very surprised if anyone could jump a foot off the ground in one on Earth.

 

[PhantomWolf]

During Gemini 4, Ed White almost couldn't get back into the capsule after his spacewalk. They hadn't taken into account the fact that a pressurized suit doesn't bend as easily as an unpressurized suit.

Got a cite for this? I know that he stayed out longer then MCC wanted due to he and McDivitt talking on the coms to each other and so not being able to hear CapCom telling White to get back in, and I know there was an issue with the latch on the hatch that caused issues closing it, but I haven't heard about him having trouble getting back into the capsule, and wouldn't have thought that it would have been an issue.

Are you sure that you aren't confusing White's walk with that done by Aleksei Leonov?

 

[dafydd]

Whada ya want? A lawyer with twenty five pages of fine print spelling out all the fine details?

An astronaut with the 200 pound suit (earth weight) has MORE mass than he did without the suit. However, on the moon he weighs only 58 pounds. He as less weight than he had on earth. It would feel like he was on a slippery surface with a maximum coefficient of friction of 58/350 or about 17%.

He would spin his 'wheels' like you would if you were trying to walk in water up to your nipples. The difference is that his foward progress on the moon is not impeded by water. The traction would feel about the same.

Weight is determined by the gravitational force on an object. the mass remains the same.

Here is a good explanation,and easy reading for the beginner.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mass.html

 

[CptColumbo]

Got a cite for this? I know that he stayed out longer then MCC wanted due to he and McDivitt talking on the coms to each other and so not being able to hear CapCom telling White to get back in, and I know there was an issue with the latch on the hatch that caused issues closing it, but I haven't heard about him having trouble getting back into the capsule, and wouldn't have thought that it would have been an issue.

Are you sure that you aren't confusing White's walk with that done by Aleksei Leonov?

It was in Gene Cernan's book. In the chapter about his spacewalk.

Leonov had a curtain that surounded him outside his capsule, so he was able to de-pressurize it enough to get back into the capsule.

White was able to get into the capsule, but couldn't bend at the waist. So, he was basically standing up in the capsule and the hatch couldn't be shut. They slowly de-pressurized the suit so he could get the hatch shut. The hatch then didn't want to close. They went a full orbit de-pressurized before the hatch was shut.


The problem was even worse for Cernan on Gemini 9, as he was wearing the reinforced suit (to use with the jet pack). The visor had also fogged up due to his efforts to get into the jetpack (they had apparently not thought to add hand holds).