Mobertermy
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Mobertermy's Pentagon Evidence
- Thread starter twinstead
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9/11 Chewy Defense
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Mobertermy
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I read some of your blog. Apparently us Truthers make all kinds of cognitive mistakes. Here's an example:Ok, looks like case closed!
Your english is so bad I figured it must be your second language...then I noticed you're from Johnstown and I realized that's also a good explanation.
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9/11 Chewy Defense
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You guys make mistakes all the time, it's in your nature!
My english is "bad"? Just because I researched about you Truthers doesn't mean that you can nit pick me because of, what's that you said you Truthers have? Oh yes, cognitive mistakes!
What does my location have to do with it? I guess you never read about the Johnstown Flood of 1889, the nations first disaster?!
Come on, say something smart, errr stupid!
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Andy_Ross
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Mobertermy
Why would anyone bother to hide the evidence of a more northerly approach to the Pentagon and go to all the trouble of making it look a bit further south?
Why not just go with the slightly more northern approach?
WHere is the sense or reason in your claim?
Why would anyone bother to hide the evidence of a more northerly approach to the Pentagon and go to all the trouble of making it look a bit further south?
Why not just go with the slightly more northern approach?
WHere is the sense or reason in your claim?
Justin39640
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Personal attacks? Sheesh...
How about thinking a plane, traveling about 500 MPH, hits a building from a direction other than what all of the damage to that building indicates? It's not like they fixed it overnight. It's not like people stopped taking pictures of it after 9/11/01. This was not able to be faked.
sheeplesnshills
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No, its where CIT told the Cab driver where he had to have been.
and still waiting for your father Mcgraw statement that says he was NoC!
Produce it or stop lying!
JohnG
Pedantic Bore
You asked for our thoughts on if governments are capable of killing their own citizens. Those who bothered to address your question generally said yes, governments are capable of killing their own citizens. You then twisted this and said that we said that governments kill their own citizens. I'd accuse you of intellectual dishonesty but that may be giving you too much credit. Let me lay it out as succinctly as possible:
"governments are capable of killing their own citizens" != "governments kill their own citizens"
But let's let that slide. Even if you had asked "do governments kill their own citizens?" and people here agreed that was at least sometimes true of some governments, so what? What is that supposed to prove? Governments kill their own citizens?! Well spotted, Dr. Chomsky! Most of us had that particular disquieting epiphany as children.
On what planet does anyone consider Al Qaeda, or any terrorist organization "satisfying"?
What is "satisfying" (in a lackadaisical, self-satisfied sort of way) is the belief that all of the evil in the world, all the war, hunger, murder and injustice is perpetrated by one all-powerful, albeit irredeemably evil organization. What a childishly naive and banal idea! It means that you don't have to think very much about any act of evil, which is certainly a nice out for the intellectually and morally lazy. Just say "the government did it!" and the rest of the evening is free to get high and play video games, right? No need to study psychology, history, politics, sociology et al when you can just quote Acton's Axiom and delude yourself that you actually said something controversial and meaningful.
The perverse sort of "faith" CTists have in the government to be indefatigably evil sort of reminds me of the pragmatic, grudging faith some people have in God; "sure he's a **** sometimes, but it's comforting to know that his hand is always at the tiller and that nothing happens without his say-so". I guess I can see the appeal of believing that the government is evil, yet all powerful and all knowing, when compared with the decidedly unappealing idea that evil deeds can arise from anyone, anywhere at anytime.
What I suspect you and most other "Truthers" are really terrified of...sorry, dissatisfied by is chaos. The idea of a universe without any inherent moral principle. That's nothing to be ashamed of. It is a scary thought. It's just that some of us have decided that believing only in things that comfort or flatter us is at best childish and at worst possible evidence of some mental problem.
Mobertermy
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OK, so you are saying that Governments are capable of killing their own citizens but never actually do it? I do accuse you of intellectual dishonesty.
John do you really not get what I was saying?
Again John, do you really not understand what I was saying?
You're talking about Al-Qaeda now right? Sounds like it.
Yup, totally childish.
Yeah that's right...it's all one organization: Al-Qaeda. Man if only we could get Bin Laden...evil would be vanquisehd and the Good guys would win....that's the Americans.
No John, I'm with you! Al-Qaeda did it...throw some burgers on the grill and crack open a cold one...the games starting soon.
No controversy here at all. Al-Qaeda did it. One supremely evil organization with a worldwide network of sleeper cells...dead or alive...we're gonna smoke 'em out of their caves. God damn I love being a cowboy...a real American...one of the good guys...know what I mean? Sure is satisfyin' ain't it?
Your faith that they are good reminds me of the same.
Surely you jest when what the Bush administration sold day in and day out was that we are the good guys and that we are going to get, and I quote, "the Evildoers." John your analysis is just so lame and weak I'm a little embarassed for you.
Psychobabble nonsense that you didn't even bother to analyze enough to realize that it applies more to you than Truthers. You want to hear some psychobabble? You are PROJECTING. Now go enlist so you can help smoke the evildoers out of their caves John Wayne...or is it Dr. John Wayne?
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Childlike Empress
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JohnG
Pedantic Bore
Arus808
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you still have yet to prove anything that you claim so spew all the "projection' crap you want:
you've shown from post 1 that;
1) you suck at photograph analysis
2) cannot tell north from south
3) do not understand photography in general
4) have trouble reading a map
5) cannot understand the witness testimonies
6) ignore physical evidence
7) have yet to come up with a theory (yes you have to support your claims) that fit your "analysis" - meaning YOU have to come up with an FULL story as to why your "analysis" is correct and everything else is wrong
Here I'll start off your story for you
"As shown in these photographs, I believe these were faked because...... and because that these are faked, this is what I feel happened on 9/11 based on this evidence: 1.....2.......3..."
Now fill in the rest.
8) Have Bush derangement syndrome.
Scott Sommers
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I don't understand what's happening here anymore. Mobertermy, you seem to have admitted you can't interpret the photographic evidence properly. Right? You have no meaningful physical evidence that contradicts the newspaper description. Right? You have no logical counter explanation for the agreed upon physical evidence at the Pentagon on 911. Right? So what's the problem? This is just straight forward.
In whatever job you do for a living, if you hired someone who worked like this, what would happen to them?
In whatever job you do for a living, if you hired someone who worked like this, what would happen to them?
alienentity
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It is, you shill! Pearl Harbour, Gulf of Tonkin, JFK, Roswell, Richard Simmons - need I say more? [/truther mode]
JohnG
Pedantic Bore
No, I'm saying you are attempting some sort of half-witted and disingenuous perversion of the Socratic method. For example (emphasis mine, putting words in the mouths of others, all yours):
This isn't some pedantic nitpick (though I'm fully "capable" of those, too); I am "capable" of performing CPR. Using your tortured logic that means I must have performed CPR at some point in my life. Having said that, even if we had all agreed that "governments kill their own people", the leap from there to believing that the government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks is absurd. If you have a reasonable theory that isn't "inherently preposterous", you have my full attention. So far all you've done is embarrass yourself with your questionable photo analysis skills.
Would that it were true...
Again...
Assuming that everyone else has as two dimensional a view of the world as you do...talk about projection. Al Qaeda is responsible for many crimes, 9/11 being one of them and the one most relevant to the discussion. The US government is responsible for many crimes. The German government is responsible for many crimes. The Japanese government is responsible for many crimes. The Turkish government is responsible for many crimes. The Russian government is responsible for many crimes. The Mafia is responsible for many crimes. The IRA is responsible for many crimes. The Ku Klux Klan is responsible for many crimes...did they all (and the 7,000 others I didn't list) have a hand in the 9/11 attacks?
I think you missed my point, bless.
Nope, didn't say that. I'm probably going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that you won't find anyone here who has ever expressed that sentiment. There's plenty of evil in the world. Neither the US government nor Al-Qaeda hold have a monopoly on it.
Boy, are you barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm the "beer, burgers and ball game" type. That's alright, though. I've grown accustomed to you spouting off about things you know nothing about and just generally getting things wrong.
Oh, brother. I'm betting even Bush would roll his eyes at that hyperbole/straw man/reductio ad absurdum.
Show me where I said I had faith that "they" are good? You can't. Putting words in people's mouths again? I generally have a low opinion of most politicians and an even lower opinion of big business. Good God, man are you ever right about anything???
Bush was and remains an ineducable idiot who exploited the 9/11 attacks to further his own agenda. People of good will can also argue that he and his administration could have done a better job of analyzing and acting on data that could have lead to the attacks being foiled. That doesn't mean he was in any way responsible for the attacks. Your embarrassment is based on some bizarro-world version of my post that exists only in your imagination.
If I promise in advance to be hurt and humiliated will you explain the "Dr. John Wayne" thing? I don't doubt for a second that that is a clever putdown, and maybe it's the lateness of the hour but I just don't get it.
I'm going to ask you a few questions that I've asked four or five people (here and elsewhere) who believe that the US Government had some hand in the 9/11 attacks. To date all I've gotten in response are what basically amount to blank stares. If you attempt an honest, intelligent, objective answer to these questions, my respect for you will increase a thousandfold:
1. If the US Government really is as evil as you (and many others) believe, wouldn't you expect there to occasionally be "blowback" in the form of what are generally termed "terrorist" attacks?
2. Are all attacks (large and small) against the government "false flags"? If not, how can you tell the difference?
3. If all attacks are "false flags", why is it that no individuals and/or organizations ever attempt these sorts of violent protests/reprisals? Is it because anyone and everyone who has a problem with the government are pacifists? Or do they not attack because the government is too omnipotent/omniscient to allow for a successful attack and these factions therefore realize the futility of such an action?
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Trying to explain perspective to Mobertermy, and why things look different according to the location they're viewed from, isn't exactly a trivial proposition, as some of us have found out on another thread.
Dave
twinstead
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Maybe Mobertermy thinks this is a thread to discuss how governments kill their own people in general (that would be boring. Everybody would agree) instead of a thread to present evidence that a specific government killed their own people in a specific incident.
It's the latter, Mobertermy. Do you have any of that evidence?
It's the latter, Mobertermy. Do you have any of that evidence?
Oystein
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Let me make this plain:
You can rape a child. Correct??
Would it be okay if I offered this as evidence that you did rape a child?
Would it be okay if I called you publicly a child-molester?
If you say "no", please explain why you call the US government mass-murderers, when all you bring to the field is your believe that they can do such things? Your entire claim of photo manipulation likewise rests on your believe that photos can be manipulated.
And, you, Mobertermy, can rape and murder children!
Mobertermy
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In all seriousness I would give them a management position. Someone who can think outside the box, try out new ideas, think for themselves, not afraid of trying something new even if its in an area outside their expertise, recognize when they make mistakes and have the integrity to admit it. Yup...management. The opposite of that person is someone who lacks creativity, needs to be told what to do, is unaware when they make mistakes, but probably won't make many anyways because they are uninterested or scared to try something new, and even if they did probably wouldn't float their ideas to the team because they are afraid of being negatively judged.