In Teabagistan Schools Will Be Segregated

Bob Blaylock said:
Ending a blatantly racist policy is being condemnded by liberals as “racist”.
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I guess you didn't read the article, then.

And in 2000, they shifted from racial to economic integration, adopting a goal that no school should have more than 40 percent of its students qualify for free or reduced-price lunches, the proxy for poverty.
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hgc said:
No, a republic ≠ a democracy. A republic has no monarch. Plenty of republics are non-democratic. The UK, on the other hand, is a democratic monarchy.

Back in the day, the founding of the USA as a republic was a big friggin' deal, because they weren't so common. But so was the democracy aspect of it. You know, the whole thing about people electing the representatives and president kind of establishes the USA as a democracy.
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Ok. So to clarify -

Republic is just a form of government that has no monarch.

Democracy is a form of government in which the people elect their leadership.

The U.S. is a democratic republic.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Is Teabagistan anywhere near Libertopia?
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Libertopia is the capital. You can buy any sort of gun you want there but you have to put in a $20,000 down payment just to get into one of their very few hospitals. That's if the mercenary police force doesn't shake you down for it first.
 
Biscuit said:
Ok. So to clarify -

Republic is just a form of government that has no monarch.

Democracy is a form of government in which the people elect their leadership.

The U.S. is a democratic republic.
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Agreed.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
If the label fits....

Or maybe you don't think Art Pope is either key to this issue or as radical a Tea Bagger as the stuff I posted above suggests or some other reason? Feel free to go on....
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But I'm pointing out that it adds nothing positive to the discussion. In fact, it lowers the discourse.

Why do that?
 
hgc said:
From the Washington Post




You know, Tea Party -- all about fiscal discipline. Oh, and re-segregating school systems too. They're also about that.

Don't act surprised.
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Could any of this be seen as a cost saving effort? Really all the planning, busing, etc. probably takes money out of the educational coffers. Is it really segregation to let people go to school closer to their homes?

I'm not a tea partier, or republican for that matter, and the thought that my kid might be riding a bus for hours a day seems a little silly...
 
hgc said:
From the Washington Post
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That article has some problems, and your interpretation of that article has some serious problems. Let's start with one of the problems of the article:

"The situation unfolding here in some ways represents a first foray of tea party conservatives into the business of shaping a public school system, and it has made Wake County the center of a fierce debate over the principle first enshrined in the Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education: that diversity and quality education go hand in hand. "

That's not what Brown v. Board was about at all. It wasn't about diversity, it was about discrimination. Now, one could certainly adopt the position that diversity enhances education quality, but that is not, and never was, what that supreme court case was about. Major error.

Now on to YOUR error, starting with the thread title. This isn't about segregation. Segregation means students of different races are forces by government into different schools based on their race. But that isn't what's at issue here. Nobody is talking about re-segregating schools. As Brown v. Board already proved, the school board doesn't have that power even if they wanted to. What they're talking about doing is stopping (or scaling back) bussing. Which would bring that district into line with most of the country. Now, that may or may not be a bad thing, but it is not segregation. Hell, even the article points out that the objection isn't really about race, it's about economics:

"Without a diversity policy in place, they [critics of the new board] say, the county will inevitably slip into the pattern that defines most districts across the country, where schools in well-off neighborhoods are decent and those in poor, usually minority neighborhoods struggle."

Race happens to be correlated with economics, and they're worried about the effects this might have on minorities, but the policy itself is race-neutral, and obviously so. Hell, even the policy under attack is based on economics, not race:

"And in 2000, they shifted from racial to economic integration, adopting a goal that no school should have more than 40 percent of its students qualify for free or reduced-price lunches, the proxy for poverty."

And again, while overturning the old policy may or may not be a good thing, you seem to be ignoring the actual reasons given for the change, such as the high rate of assigned transfers between schools, which can be quite disruptive for kids, or the fact that the old policy is still failing poor kids.

But hey, the racism charge is much easier to play than figuring out whether or not your policy preference actually works better.
 
You are wrong about the republic question.

A republic is a representative form of government where the people vote for representatives to enact laws on their behalf. A constitutional republic is a republic where certain principles are codified and are not privy to the whims of a simple majority.

Democracy refers in general to forms of government where the people have a say. The contrast the people here are making is between a pure democracy (majority rules) and the constitutional democratic republic, which had check and balances to insure the rights of the minority.
 
Cayvmann said:
Could any of this be seen as a cost saving effort? Really all the planning, busing, etc. probably takes money out of the educational coffers.
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From the article

Although most students here ride buses to school, officials said fewer than 10 percent are bused to a school to maintain diversity, and most bus rides are less than five miles.
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How come no one's talking about the fact that the neighborhoods in this community (as they are everywhere in America) are segregated? If society should be all about "diversity" and "equality," why doesn't anyone advocate for building affordable/public housing within the "richer" districts? If the neighborhoods were integrated, then the schools would be too, right?
 
another article about the situation

An administrator with a national accreditation group has suggested the Wake County Public School System consider withdrawing its accreditation in light of a pending review unless school officials “can move forward in a more collegial and collaborative manner,” according to e-mails made public Tuesday by the school district.

The statement comes in a Jan. 10 e-mail from AdvancED President and Chief Executive Officer Mark Elgart in response to concerns from school board attorney Ann Majestic that the agency is overstepping its bounds in reviewing changes the school board has made regarding its student assignment policy.

Board member John Tedesco called AdvancED a "totalitarian monopoly from Atlanta."
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http://www.wral.com/news/education/wake_county_schools/story/8922858/

I wonder how much money the school board has in its legal defense fund?

then today:

The Wake County school board decided on Wednesday to send a letter to the national group that accredits the county's schools.

The board came to the decision after a closed session discussion into whether to withdraw from accreditation group AdvancED, which the board believes is overstepping its bounds in reviewing the board’s governance and leadership after controversial changes it made last year to the district’s longstanding student assignment policy.

"This is a vote for ongoing cooperation. It is not a vote to withdraw and I want to be very clear about that," board member Debra Goldman said.
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http://www.wral.com/news/education/wake_county_schools/story/8927198/
 
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hgc said:
No, a republic ≠ a democracy. A republic has no monarch. Plenty of republics are non-democratic. The UK, on the other hand, is a democratic monarchy.

Back in the day, the founding of the USA as a republic was a big friggin' deal, because they weren't so common. But so was the democracy aspect of it. You know, the whole thing about people electing the representatives and president kind of establishes the USA as a democracy.
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To be fair it wasn't given who was allowed to participate in that democracy (which was no worse than most other countries and better than many), the republic bit was the really important bit.
 
The school board’s Finance Committee also met Wednesday to determine what to do about the $100 million budget deficit the school system is facing.
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Actions that are sure to provoke an expensive legal fight don't seem to be in the best interests of the board right now.

it's going to be interesting to watch how these teabaggers react when they find they have real issues to face, not made up crap like desegregation.
 
Cayvmann said:
Could any of this be seen as a cost saving effort? Really all the planning, busing, etc. probably takes money out of the educational coffers. Is it really segregation to let people go to school closer to their homes?

I'm not a tea partier, or republican for that matter, and the thought that my kid might be riding a bus for hours a day seems a little silly...
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They should sell it as a carbon-reducing effort to get liberals on board.
 
xjx388 said:
How come no one's talking about the fact that the neighborhoods in this community (as they are everywhere in America) are segregated? If society should be all about "diversity" and "equality," why doesn't anyone advocate for building affordable/public housing within the "richer" districts? If the neighborhoods were integrated, then the schools would be too, right?
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Exactly this.

Similarly, if all schools received equal per-pupil funding rather than underfunding schools with poor children, and teachers were randomly assigned within the district rather than the best teachers getting to teach at the wealthiest schools, the demographics wouldn't be nearly as important.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Ending a blatantly racist policy is being condemnded by liberals as “racist”.

Nothing surprising about the irony here; it doesn't tell us anything about the liberal mindset that most rational people didn't already know quite well.
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What blatantly racist policy do you claim is being ended?
 
However, there have been republics that were not democratic. Consider the mercantile republics of the European Middle Ages, particularly in what later became Italy.

The dominant form of government for these early republics was control by a limited council of elite patricians. In those areas that held elections, property qualifications or guild membership limited both who could vote and who could run. In many states no direct elections were held and council members were hereditary or appointed by the existing council. This left the great majority of the population without political power, and riots and revolts by the lower classes were common. The late Middle Ages saw more than 200 such risings in the towns of the Holy Roman Empire.[32] Similar revolts occurred in Italy, notably the Ciompi Revolt in Florence.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#Mercantile_republics

That would have been a better place to live than most parts of the world at the time, but it would be a major step backward from where we are now.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
What blatantly racist policy do you claim is being ended?
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I believe he's talking about forced busing to artificially create racial integration in schools.
Of course, we know that in this case the artificial integration was based on economics, not race. So the policies in place were not racist.
 
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