Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

Thunder...hyperbole much? Don't say it if you don't mean it. I thought that was rather the point you and I have been trying to make? :cool:
 
slingblade said:
Thunder...hyperbole much? Don't say it if you don't mean it. I thought that was rather the point you and I have been trying to make? :cool:
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I did mean it. Wildcat made a strawman, and I offered a $20 reward if he could prove it was not.
 
truethat said:
I don't think that is what the original data in the article was indicating if anyone bothered to read it.

What it was discussing was the connection between schizophrenia and weed and the way it was different.
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They want data? Will they follow the data if it goes against their pot war? Or is it just lies to sell it? In a war the first thing to go is truth, and the first thing to arrive is lies.

As an SZ I've looked into this. The mainstream media loves to spill ink hyping the allegation that marijuana causes mental illness, particularly schizophrenia. Yet when research appears in scientific journals rebuking just this sort of ‘reefer madness,’ it generally goes unreported. A study published in the journal Schizophrenia Research assessed the cognitive skills of schizophrenic patients with a history of cannabis use compared to non-users.
( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20483565 )

Authors reported that patients with a history of marijuana use “demonstrated significantly better performance on measures of processing speed, verbal fluency, and verbal learning and memory” compared to abstainers. Marijuana use was also associated with better overall GAF (Global Assessment of Functioning) scores compared to those of non-users.

Authors concluded: “The results of the present analysis suggest that (cannabis use) in patients with SZ (schizophrenia) is associated with better performance on measures of processing speed and verbal skills. These data are consistent with prior reports indicating that SZ patients with a history of CUD (cannabis use disorders) have less severe cognitive deficits than SZ patients without comorbid CUD. … The present findings also suggest that CUD in patients with SZ may not differentially affect the severity of illness as measured by clinical symptomatology.”

So pot might be a good treatment for some according to the data. Will the pot war pushers, in light of their love for scientific data now sing the opposite? Yeah right, they do so care about the truth. And what about those famous "pink elephants" of alcohol use disorder (AUD). Schizophrenic obviously right?
 
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Thunder said:
I did mean it. Wildcat made a strawman, and I offered a $20 reward if he could prove it was not.
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Why do you keep playing games online in your posts. This is like the third time I've seen you offer people money as if you are going to actually go forward with this idea? You act like this is somehow a convincing argument or that you've won a point when you say "Oh yeah, I betcha 20 dollars I'm right."

Then you refuse to listen to the facts or say you don't understand them and that they need to be explained again.

I'm noticing this recently with quite a few posters on this site. Newsflash, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that the other poster didn't explain it properly.

It might be that you have a hard time understanding the argument. And that's not necessarily the other person's responsibility.

Telling them "30 bucks says you can't get me to understand it" and then "I don't understand it HA HA I win!" is strange.
 
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case#46cw39 said:
They want data? Will they follow the data if it goes against their pot war? Or is it just lies to sell it? In a war the first thing to go is truth, and the first thing to arrive is lies.

As an SZ I've looked into this. The mainstream media loves to spill ink hyping the allegation that marijuana causes mental illness, particularly schizophrenia. Yet when research appears in scientific journals rebuking just this sort of ‘reefer madness,’ it generally goes unreported. A study published in the journal Schizophrenia Research assessed the cognitive skills of schizophrenic patients with a history of cannabis use compared to non-users.
( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20483565 )

Authors reported that patients with a history of marijuana use “demonstrated significantly better performance on measures of processing speed, verbal fluency, and verbal learning and memory” compared to abstainers. Marijuana use was also associated with better overall GAF (Global Assessment of Functioning) scores compared to those of non-users.

Authors concluded: “The results of the present analysis suggest that (cannabis use) in patients with SZ (schizophrenia) is associated with better performance on measures of processing speed and verbal skills. These data are consistent with prior reports indicating that SZ patients with a history of CUD (cannabis use disorders) have less severe cognitive deficits than SZ patients without comorbid CUD. … The present findings also suggest that CUD in patients with SZ may not differentially affect the severity of illness as measured by clinical symptomatology.”

So pot might be a good treatment for some according to the data. Will the pot war pushers, in light of their love for scientific data now sing the opposite? Yeah right, they do so care about the truth. And what about those famous "pink elephants" of alcohol use disorder (AUD). Schizophrenic obviously right?
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That's not what I got from the article's data at all. What I got was that sometimes Schizophrenics abuse marijuana and it can have an adverse effect on them because of their medical condition. I saw them asking if he had perhaps used pot that day and it sent him over the edge.

Not sure at all what you are talking about. Seems to have nothing to do with the data.
 
truethat said:
Why do you keep playing games online in your posts. This is like the third time I've seen you offer people money as if you are going to actually go forward with this idea?
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Paypaling someone $20 is not that big a deal. I have a Paypal account ready for the transaction.
 
truethat said:
That's not what I got from the article's data at all. What I got was that sometimes Schizophrenics abuse marijuana and it can have an adverse effect on them because of their medical condition. I saw them asking if he had perhaps used pot that day and it sent him over the edge.

Not sure at all what you are talking about. Seems to have nothing to do with the data.
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What I'm talking about is that the pot, according to the data, has a POSITIVE EFFECT. That's not an adverse affect. Pot actually HELPS cognitive functioning in SZs according to the data. And it's no excuse for a general pot war against the whole population anyway obviously. If it was then pink elephants, beer muscles, and spousal murder while on alcohol, is an excuse for a general alcohol war. Do you want that too?
 
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Thunder said:
Paypaling someone $20 is not that big a deal. I have a Paypal account ready for the transaction.
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This isn't a pay pal site. You missed the point.


The point is that betting someone is not the same thing as making a lucid and reasonable argument. You shouldn't need to bet people. To me it's a way of circumventing the discussion.
 
Merko said:
He did not himself invent the theories about how the current government is 'unconstitutional'. He got that from somewhere.
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Possibly a book. Possibly from working on a high school political science project five years ago. Or elsewhere.

Yes, he got it from "somewhere", but somewhere isn't necessarily a tea party, or televised tea party event. Most schizophrenics for eons have ranted about the gov't and religion.
 
truethat said:
The point is that betting someone is not the same thing as making a lucid and reasonable argument. You shouldn't need to bet people. To me it's a way of circumventing the discussion.
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Betting? who's betting?

the $20 is a motivator. he goes through a gazillion pages to find the quote he is looking for, posts it, and I pay him the big bucks.
 
USEagle13 said:
Of the people whom I personally know: Most of the liberals I know are jobless, athiest, and are not "actively" even looking for a job because they are bums. So they are not even counted on the list of unemployed people (it only counts people receiving benefits). All they want to do is drink, watch sports, and socialize. They dread work and do not want to do it. Most actually quit their jobs (I know man crazy huh!? Talk about not caring during times of economic hardships).

I feel sorry for their families whom suffer because of their addictions of constant personal pleasure, and unthoughtfullness for others (did I just create a new word).


Most of the conservatives whom I know have jobs and the ones who are jobless; most are receiving benefits (while they are actively looking).

Also I might point out that of all the people who I know personally who own their own businesses: almost ALL are conservative (I can only think of a couple libs who I know that own their own businesses.)

Heck I even know a Muslim guy who came to the US in the 80's from Pakistan and started a pizza business. Guess what!? He's republican!

And he voted for Bush and is a big fan of Fog Hat and Metallica (he used to go to their concerts.) Talk about assimilation!
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Well thanks for the helpful contribution to the discussion. Let me paraphrase. I know liberals on well fare there for all liberals are lazy and their ideology is wrong.

Guess what? The most chronically unemployed person I know is a hard core conservative. He drinks and has been fired from more jobs than I can count. Does that mean I go about making generalizations in the wake of a tragedy that fully 1/2 of America is wrong, lazy, stupid, and unwilling to work? No, because I am responsible individual. I look to more than a persons politics when I decide their worth.

I am a liberal, I am a business owner, I know many other liberal business owners and liberals that work hard and contribute to their community. I know many conservatives and enjoy their company and their intellect because they aren't so ignorant and biased to think that only their political ideals are the only way to run this country. They understand that people on both side have worth and value and their points and voices should be heard.

The people I don't associate with are the ones that would think this was an appropriate time to hide in their political bunker and start chucking grenades of useless BS. Good day.

P.S. I am also an secular humanist so don't go calling me an atheist
 
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Thunder said:
Gabe Zimmermann was engaged. :(
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He was the acquaintance of mine and yes he was engaged and damn nice guy too. I only hung out with him at a few concerts and some holiday parties and I know it s generic in the wake of a man's death to say it but he really was a nice guy.
 
Biscuit said:
He was the acquaintance of mine and yes he was engaged and damn nice guy too. I only hung out with him at a few concerts and some holiday parties and I know it s generic in the wake of a man's death to say it but he really was a nice guy.
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I am very....very sorry for your loss. :(

I doubt there is any relation, but my great-Aunt's married name was Zimmermann.
 
Thunder said:
I am very....very sorry for your loss. :(

I doubt there is any relation, but my great-Aunt's married name was Zimmermann.
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Maybe? He was not related to Bob Dylan. I asked him. As I have every Zimmerman I have ever meet.

Maybe we can stop drawing lines now and starting seeing ourselves not as a political stand or a religious POV but rather a group of people all stuck on the same raft who need to find ways to get along despite our differences. God that sounds corny but whatever.
 
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