Health care - administrative incompetence

Folks back to the topic - TFian especially.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
Alllllllllll riiiiiighty, then...

MC: Sorry it took me so long to respond, but here it goes. What do you think currently happens in America? Do you think kids in your situation are routinely left to die? No. We have a collective soft spot for kids and there plenty of doctors, hospitals and charities that would have helped out. Even as an adult, there are clinics who care for patients in your situation regardless of ability to pay.

Our system isnt perfect, but that doesn't mean that people who need care don't get it -they do for the most part.
 
xjx388 said:
Alllllllllll riiiiiighty, then...

MC: Sorry it took me so long to respond, but here it goes. What do you think currently happens in America? Do you think kids in your situation are routinely left to die? No. We have a collective soft spot for kids and there plenty of doctors, hospitals and charities that would have helped out. Even as an adult, there are clinics who care for patients in your situation regardless of ability to pay.

Our system isnt perfect, but that doesn't mean that people who need care don't get it -they do for the most part.
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By the time people get to charity, they have gotten substandard care and in many cases will continue to receive it. This means that potentially expensive issues aren't treated as quickly and are allowed to develop into serious problems.

It's also ridiculous. It's already been shown, time and time again, that this a problem that affects millions of people. It is not the occasional isolated case that you make it out to be. If we're paying more per capita than any other country on earth, we deserve more than a promise that charity care awaits.
 
xjx, that doesn't really answer my question.

Who would pay for the treatment? My parents wouldn't be able to, any insurance they might have had would be made likely prohibitively expensive so they would be forced to drop it, and I certainly wouldn't be able to get any insurance. My family would not qualify for medical assistance because we weren't poor nor old, and even assuming they had no problems with me being on their insurance, what do I do? Do I have to get certain jobs so I can have medical insurance? Do I have to remain in the bottom rung of society so I can get medicaid? Do I cycle with a boom and bust on my money every time I have an operation?

Let's say I find a doctor who will operate on me without me needing to pay or needing insurance or medicaid. My operations are really really expensive. Who pays? Someone has to. In the NHS, every single person in the country pays for it, meaning everyone pays a fraction of a penny each. Who would be forced to bear the burden of my costs?
 
Wildy said:
Too bad I never actually said that.
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So then explain how we can pay for healthcare FOR everybody, if we can't afford them for a select group of poor. That's like saying I don't have enough to feed 5 people with current supplies, so I'm going to go feed 50 people instead with my current supplies. :eek:
 
TFian said:
So then explain how we can pay for healthcare FOR everybody, if we can't afford them for a select group of poor.
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Indigent care is used by people who don't have insurance and don't qualify for any of the government programmes. By the time these people need that care they would already have serious problems that require tens of thousands of dollars worth of treatment.

Don't you think that it's better to make sure that these people can access health services so they can get their problems treated before they get the point where it costs tons of money to treat?

That's like saying I don't have enough to feed 5 people with current supplies, so I'm going to go feed 50 people instead with my current supplies. :eek:
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Except that it isn't.
 
Delscottio said:
Can I ask why life expectancy and infant mortality aren't "valid" comparisons?
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Because they are measured differently from country to country. For example, in the US, an infant who dies at 22 weeks gestation is figured into the infant mortality rates but in other counties that is not always the case. If you're going to compare infant mortality rates you have to be certain the definition of 'infant' is defined identically across the board. In addition, the US spends more on fertility treatments than other countries. These also inflate the infant mortality rates.

Similarly, life expectancy must be universally defined. Does it include homocides and/or suicides? If we are talking about healthcare these should not be included as they have nothing to do with healthcare.

How are these studies calculated and compiled from one country to another?
 
Do you know what proportion of deaths in the infant mortality rate of the US is comprised of such deaths (ie at 22 weeks that wouldn't be counted by other countries)? And how does the amount of spending on fertility treatments relate to infant mortality rates? [ETA - after a moment's thought, I presume this is something to do with increased numbers of multiple-foetus pregnancies?]

(these are not gotcha questions, I genuinely don't know the answers)
 
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PDiGirolamo said:
Because they are measured differently from country to country. For example, in the US, an infant who dies at 22 weeks gestation is figured into the infant mortality rates but in other counties that is not always the case. ...snipo...
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I've asked a few times before and you seem to have a grasp of the issues involved so can you tell me how health statistics are collated in the USA? For example is their mandatory universal reporting of certain medical data as there is in the UK?

As you say we need to know this before we can even start to work out whether we have two pears or an apple and a pear to compare!
 
PDiGirolamo said:
Because they are measured differently from country to country. For example, in the US, an infant who dies at 22 weeks gestation is figured into the infant mortality rates but in other counties that is not always the case. If you're going to compare infant mortality rates you have to be certain the definition of 'infant' is defined identically across the board. In addition, the US spends more on fertility treatments than other countries. These also inflate the infant mortality rates.

Similarly, life expectancy must be universally defined. Does it include homocides and/or suicides? If we are talking about healthcare these should not be included as they have nothing to do with healthcare.

How are these studies calculated and compiled from one country to another?
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I don't know, see if you can find a legitimate link to prove this assertion.

It may be a legitimate claim, however, unless I see it in a medical journal, I am going to conclude it is political.

The wiki link is to this site, which is more of an opinion piece.

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/060924/2healy.htm
 
Darat said:
I've asked a few times before and you seem to have a grasp of the issues involved so can you tell me how health statistics are collated in the USA? For example is their mandatory universal reporting of certain medical data as there is in the UK?

As you say we need to know this before we can even start to work out whether we have two pears or an apple and a pear to compare!
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This paper from the CBO states it includes infants who showed "some evidence of life after separation from the mother" and that if there is no sing of life after separation from the mother it is considered a fetal death.
 
Darat said:
I've asked a few times before and you seem to have a grasp of the issues involved so can you tell me how health statistics are collated in the USA? For example is their mandatory universal reporting of certain medical data as there is in the UK?

As you say we need to know this before we can even start to work out whether we have two pears or an apple and a pear to compare!
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I can tell you that every single "billed" item is done so using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) series of codes for diagnoses and the Current Procedural Terminology for procedures/office visits, etc.

That does not say how "unbilled" services are reported. In fact, I'm sure there is no universal reporting in the US. For example, when I went to a psychiatrist for a while I paid cash and used my maiden name. I did not want my government knowing anything more about me than they already know. Call me paranoid.

ETA: However I am sure deaths are reported.
 
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