Health care - administrative incompetence

[A Laughing Baby]

Or a richer one, as it were.

 

[TFian]

I had health insurance when I got my surgery. They said it wasn't necessary and they'd only cover 20% of it. I was extraordinarily lucky that the surgery fell 2 months after the portion of the ACA bill came through that let me get temporarily put on my parent's health care which covered 90% of it (the insurance benefit from my job didn't kick in until I worked there for 9 months).

So?

 

[A Laughing Baby]

So?

I had purchased health insurance, like you so politely told me to do. I can think of no other business where it is acceptable practice to try as hard as you can to deny the service you were hired to provide. If I were to go into a McDonald's and purchase a burger, I wouldn't think it was okay for them to go "No, but we're taking your money anyway."

 

[TFian]

I had purchased health insurance, like you so politely told me to do. I can think of no other business where it is acceptable practice to try as hard as you can to deny the service you were hired to provide. If I were to go into a McDonald's and purchase a burger, I wouldn't think it was okay for them to go "No, but we're taking your money anyway."

Your insurance plan was designed to pay for 20% of the cost of care. You get what you pay for.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

That's the problem with you types. You rant on and on about "Third yatcht", and taking it away from the rich. If so, may I take away your second DVD player? Did you not earn your income? Why haven't they "earned" their income? Seems you're just jealous.

I am earning my income, and actually worked quite hard to get to where I am and am proud of it, but that's not why I don't think you actually mean what you're saying. You're adhering too hard to views that are typically attributed to strawmen in fallacious arguments, and that's very suspicious to me. I really doubt you are serious as a result.

 

[TFian]

Earlier in the thread his argument about children dying from lack of health care was "We have too many children in this country anyway."

There are over 300 million people in this country, and growing. Having way too many irresponsible amount of kids, and all the illegals jumping over thinking they're entitled to a free check and medical care (which unfortunately, they are right..) Mexicans come here, have 9 babies, and boom, set for life. All on our tax dollars.

Sad day USA, sad day...

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Watch, I can do it too, for the rest of this page:

Look. I get that there's suffering people out there. Really, I do. But obviously, they can't be suffering too badly, or else they'd find a way to get the care they need, right? If that last crack vial or bottle of booze is more important than whatever it is they so urgently need care for, then I don't think they really needed the care in the first place. Tough luck. Strong people, successful people find a way. If you can't, then either learn to or get out of the way.

 

[ZirconBlue]

If I was in the US, what would have happened? I've been told that my parents (who likely would have a reasonable, but not absolutely wonderful family insurance plan) would have not had to worry about the immediate care I received as it likely would have been covered. I accept that. What then? I've needed regular care my whole life, it's only been the last 5 years when I haven't had to see a cardiologist every year at least once, and I've had repeat trips since then anyway.

<snip>

Remember, it's a pre-existing, supremely expensive medical condition that requires frequent care. Also remember that even if my parents had medical insurance through their work (which we didn't, but it was the kind of job that might provide it) the company wasn't massive, so it might have dropped the medical insurance for employees or fired my parents (they worked for the same company).

It might also help to note that only a few years after I was born, the company went bankrupt and closed down anyway due to being undercut in it's business, so my parents formed their own company that did modestly well. Since they were self employed, they could not have had access to medical insurance through work.

If you'd lived in the US, your parents likeley would have healthcare through their employer, which would have covered probabl 80-90% of the costs initially. Eventually, though you probably would have bumped up against the "lifetime maximum benefit" of the plan*. This could have been staved off if your parents had changed employers. The pre-existing condition exclusion in most cases is waived if you have "prior creditable coverage"; that is, if your coverage doesn't lapse before switching to the new plan.

Unless the company they formed was large enough to acquire their own group health plan, they likely would not have been able to go into business for themselves. When you finished college you would not have been able to stay on your parents' plan(s), so might be in trouble now.**


*The lifetime maximums were eliminated by Obamacare this year.
**Obamacare would allow you to stay on your parents' plan until you are 26.

However, I have mine, so I'm happy. I don't see why I should have to pay for you, honestly.

Thank you. Now that you've clearly expressed your clear lack of humanity, I can safely add you to my ignore list without any second thoughts.

 

[Tatyana]

@MarkCorrigan

There's plenty of charity care for children available. Just go to a charity hospital. Who'd pass up an indigent sick child? No one does in the US.

Let's look at some evidence shall we?


It appears he would have to be classified as disabled and probably be on welfare his entire life.

Pretty suck factory for something that can happen to just about any baby for some unknown reason.



http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/content/full/37/5/1193
Task Force 5: adults with congenital heart disease: access to care
David J. Skorton, MD, FACC, Co-Chair

 

[MarkCorrigan]

TFian, can you find me a good quality healthcare plan in any state that would cover me for virtually all of the costs of my care given that I have two pre-existing conditions, one of which needs regular care?

 

[TFian]

TFian, can you find me a good quality healthcare plan in any state that would cover me for virtually all of the costs of my care given that I have two pre-existing conditions, one of which needs regular care?

Yes, California has a high risk pool you can buy into. There's a federal one as well now.

 

[kellyb]

Yes, California has a high risk pool you can buy into. There's a federal one as well now.

The California one...
http://www.mrmib.ca.gov/mrmib/mrmipbro.pdf

There are MRMIP benefit limits of
$75,000 per calendar year and $750,000
in a lifetime.

So, hope you never need a surgery.

 

[TFian]

The California one...
http://www.mrmib.ca.gov/mrmib/mrmipbro.pdf

That should cover him

 

[MarkCorrigan]

That should cover him

Hahaha. No. Not even close mate.

 

[TFian]

Hahaha. No. Not even close mate.

Then as I said before, charity care. But I think you seem to act as if you have a right to healthcare. Dangerous idea really.

 

[kellyb]

Then as I said before, charity care. But I think you seem to act as if you have a right to healthcare. Dangerous idea really.

He lives in the UK. He does have a right to health care.

 

[TFian]

He lives in the UK. He does have a right to health care.

There's a huge risk though with having a right to healthcare. Healthcare should never be considered a right, because "care", by definition, requires someone else to do something for you.

The only things that should be considered rights are things that you can do on your own. Rights are things that should not be undermined by restrictions.

Healthcare is not being taken away from people, its simply not be provided to people. Two different things. You have no right to take things away from me, but I also have no right to expect you to give me things.

If healthcare were a right, doctors could effectively be forced into slavery to provide treatment for people.

Free speech is a right because I can speak freely as long as you don't prevent me from doing it. I can own a gun as long as you don't prevent me from doing it. I can publicly assemble as long as you don't prevent me from doing it.

As far as that goes, you can give yourself medical treatment as much as you want as well, but you cannot expect that you can force someone to give you medical treatment, which is essentially what making healthcare a right would do. It is impossible to provide full healthcare for everyone. It would require an endless amount of resources to provide complete healthcare for everyone. As soon as you make healthcare a right, how do you define "how much" healthcare?

 

[kellyb]

So, you don't think people convicted of crimes should be granted a right to a lawyer?

On this:

If healthcare were a right, doctors could effectively be forced into slavery to provide treatment for people.

Doctors could be forced into slavery to provide treatment for people without health care being a right, too. Teachers could be forced into slavery to teach people/children without education being a right, etc.

 

[TFian]

So, you don't think people convicted of crimes should be granted a right to a lawyer?

No, I don't.

Doctors could be forced into slavery to provide treatment for people without health care being a right, too. Teachers could be forced into slavery to teach people/children without education being a right, etc.

Yes, they could hypothetically I know. But ingraining the "right to healthcare" just makes that justification all the much easier.

 

[Wildy]

What makes you think then we can afford a universal health system, if we can't afford even indigent care?

Well for one thing you won't see hospitals facing losses from indigent care because there won't be such care.

Well, that, and Rand disregarded the need for labor, and just apparently assumed that there would be a lot of people that would go to Galt's Gulch to be the best darn janitor in the world, free from the chains of the minimum wage.

Just like in Bioshock.