Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

[Thunder]

Hayworth also takes offense at Harry Mitchell’s new TV ad, which puts Hayworth in “sniper crosshairs”: “Harry Mitchell’s ad crosses the line from being tough to being downright sick… Given the times we live in, putting an elected official in the crosshairs of a sniper rifle is an indication that Harry Mitchell is not fit to hold public office.”

These are the words of a Republican. I thought this needed to be reposted.

 

[Alan]

Look what I just found on the Democratic Leadership Council web site:


[qimg]http://home.mindspring.com/~turniton/BP_0405_heartland1.gif[/qimg]

Can we stop with the nonsense claim that in politics this type of imagery is unusual or constitutes incitement?

That was already discussed a few pages ago. The response against that was that targets and crosshairs are different enough that it is an argument of false equivalence.

I do think that targets are more acceptable than crosshairs, and would say that no matter who was using which. Crosshairs are more associated with violence than a picture of a bullseye is.

It is unfortunate that this is where the topic has gone. But it is an important topic, and I hope that people are more aware of violent political imagery and metaphors and remove them from our rhetoric. Regardless of whether it contributes to events like what happened today, it is distasteful.

 

[LTC8K6]

Hayworth also takes offense at Harry Mitchell’s new TV ad, which puts Hayworth in “sniper crosshairs”: “Harry Mitchell’s ad crosses the line from being tough to being downright sick… Given the times we live in, putting an elected official in the crosshairs of a sniper rifle is an indication that Harry Mitchell is not fit to hold public office.”

These are the words of a Republican. I thought this needed to be reposted.

Now that's political rhetoric...

 

[Orphia Nay]

Just to throw something out there that I stumbled across on ATS in a topic about this, is that an ATS member named "Erad3" has a topic, and posting history, that strongly resembles the shooter, such as the video titled "How To: Your New Currency! (Jared Loughner mirror) " where he uses the odd deductive statements and idea of creating your own currency and such.

"Infinite Source Of Currency!?!?" is the ATS topic started by "Erad3" which uses the same writing style of repetitive deductive reasoning. Just throwing this out here, would seem to correlate with the whole 'conspiracy theorist gone crazy' theory of this.

And sorry I can't post links

Edit: I think a mental illness rather than conspiracy indoctrination is at fault here.

Welcome to the forum! Sorry it's in such a tragic thread. Thanks very much for that information.

I think this is Loughner's ATS thread:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread591520/pg1

Why am I not surprised he was a member there?

 

[Spindrift]

Watching CNN.

Sanjay Gupta reported that she is responding to commands, which I guess is a huge positive sign after brain surgery.

Reported that the 9 year old girl was recently elected to her school council and a neighbor invited her to the event, because it might be interesting. I have a feeling that neighbor is going to be having some guilt issues.

The sheriff is looking for a second person, a 50-ish "person of interest".

The judge just happened to stop by to say hi to the congressman.

 

[Thunder]

Now that's political rhetoric...

ehhhhhh......

 

[LTC8K6]

I can't find any Democratic Party response. I see the ad was not continued. You can't find more than a piece of it on YouTube, no news about it and not much else except this interesting bit of hypocrisy, his opponent's reply:

I agree that was a bad ad. Where's the evidence the Democratic Party embraced the tactic, used it widely, and refused to denounce it when called on it?

No one has claimed both parties don't have their share of crappy politicians. No one is claiming only one side has a stupid fringe. The issue is that the rhetoric embracing a violent response to political discontent is embraced by leading Repubs and prominent voices on the right such as Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

You really aren't interested in fair play are you? You asked for examples for crying out loud! Well, I've had it. You have a good evening chasing your tail...

 

[UWdude]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.judge.obit/index.html

article about the murdered judge.

Roll had also been assigned to hear the ethnic studies ban case out of Tucson, according to the lead attorney on the case, Richard Martinez. The case involves a new law banning certain ethnic studies programs in public schools.

interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/us/08ethnic.html?src=me&ref=general
Rift in Arizona as Latino Class Is Found Illegal

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread591520/pg1

Why am I not surprised he was a member there?

Spare me the sad smiley. Secretly, this is what many of you are wishing and hoping for. Thunder came out and said it on page 1, a thread was started in 9/11 conspiracy theories before it was merged with this. You, like everyone else with an agenda, want to use this event to score political points, so can the false sadness. You are delighted.

 

[fuelair]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqB4tyvxWKA

Democrat crosshairs vid, for those who wanted such...

Minor technical, though I agree they are crosshairs - and neat distance markers also : he was clearly noting that the Justice Department was looking into his opponent, not suggesting that the average Democrat should make him a target. That is a touch, a tad, just a little bit different from marking him as a target for Dems to take out. Can you possibly locate one (just for me ) that is much more like the kind used by Palin or Griffins' opponent (the M-16 picture shoot thing).


In all fairness, I am asking that because I do not think you will be able to find such from any major political Democrat (State Rep. or higher - up to President). Not even when Shrub was first running. Or running later.

 

[UWdude]

Just to throw something out there that I stumbled across on ATS in a topic about this, is that an ATS member named "Erad3" has a topic, and posting history, that strongly resembles the shooter, such as the video titled "How To: Your New Currency! (Jared Loughner mirror) " where he uses the odd deductive statements and idea of creating your own currency and such.

"Infinite Source Of Currency!?!?" is the ATS topic started by "Erad3" which uses the same writing style of repetitive deductive reasoning. Just throwing this out here, would seem to correlate with the whole 'conspiracy theorist gone crazy' theory of this.

And sorry I can't post links

Edit: I think a mental illness rather than conspiracy indoctrination is at fault here.

That definitely sounds like him, but who are you, and why was this your first post?

 

[Spindrift]

That definitely sounds like him, but who are you, and why was this your first post?

Who are you and why was this your 298th post?

 

[WildCat]

There's no evidence yet in this case that it had anything to do with politics, though, so can we not just stick to the facts as we know them thusfar instead of manufacturing political crap?

I'm trying to get off the political crap. Bear with me...

do these targets have any names of politicians attached to them?

no. no they do not.

The one the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee web site had up for the 2009 elections did. And it was interactive, click on the target and the GOP guy's pic pops up.

No longer up, but you can see descriptions and screen shots here: http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this ends the idiotic claims that Palin's graphic sparked this shooting. It was not unusual nor did it amount to incitement.

 

[Whyhi]

Yeah, I'd bet that is indeed Loughner, the writing style and basically the incoherence is quite similar to say the least.

Like from the topic:

"If a member of the treasury creates 5 new currency's then the new currency replaces the previous currency.
If the new currency replaces the previous currency then the previous currency is no longer in use.
A members of the treasury creates 5 new currency's.
Therefore, the previous currency is no longer in use. "

And from his known video:

f I'm thinking of creating a new currency then I'm thinking of a design for my new coins size, shape, colour, material, and image to start a new money system

I'm thinking of creating a new currency

Therefore, I'm thinking of a design for my new coins size, shape, color, material, and image to start a new money system

Eerily similar to say the least

That definitely sounds like him, but who are you, and why was this your first post?

Long timer lurker on JREF, and occasional poster / debunker on ATS, I don't see why the number of my posts has any relevance though.

 

[case#46cw39]

Welcome to the forum! Sorry it's in such a tragic thread. Thanks very much for that information.

I think this is Loughner's ATS thread:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread591520/pg1

Why am I not surprised he was a member there?

One reply "erad3" got in that thread ---

"I have maybe made a mistake is my assessment of your avatar, because for that to be the case, you'd have to be at least somewhat rational, but I think youre frankly schizophrenic, and no that's not an amateur opinion and not intended as an uninformed or insulting remark, you clearly make no sense and are unable to communicate. I really do care.

Seek help before you hurt yourself or others or start taking your medications again, please. Maybe, it'd be better for some there be an infinite source of haldol or cogentin then fiat currency."

 

[fuelair]

interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/us/08ethnic.html?src=me&ref=general
Rift in Arizona as Latino Class Is Found Illegal



Spare me the sad smiley. Secretly, this is what many of you are wishing and hoping for. Thunder came out and said it on page 1, a thread was started in 9/11 conspiracy theories before it was merged with this. You, like everyone else, want to use this to score political points, so can the false sadness. You are delighted.

Based on your total input in this post, I do not think that word (delighted) means what you think it does. There is no false sadness in us - but there is the sure knowledge that we have been expecting something(s) like this.

Knowing your enemy is an unfortunate necessity, wanting your enemy to harm your own people or non connected persons is not -
at least for the Democrats/liberals I know- and the short list of conservatives/religious I know and respect because they do not support this kind of thing.

 

[Fnord]

That definitely sounds like him, but who are you, and why was this your first post?

He is "Whyhi", and everybody here has a first post.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

Arizona Suspect’s Recent Acts Offer Hints of Alienation
New York Times

"That behavior, along with a disturbing video, prompted school administrators to call in Mr. Loughner’s parents and tell them that their son had been suspended and would have to get a mental health evaluation to return to college. Instead, he dropped out in October, a spokesman for the college said."

Reveals some good things and some sad things. Good that the community college was on top of things and suspended him as well as calling in his parents. After the VA Tech shootings, this suggests the college administrators in this case did implement an appropriate policy to deal with the kind of behavior this kid was exhibiting.

But sad in that we can't see that the parents got adequate help for their son. Either they were in denial or there just weren't resources for them and they were at a loss as to what to do. My guess would be it was the latter.

And sad in that when the college suspended the guy, there was no way for them to pass any kind of warning or responsibility on to local authorities. Maybe the school was convinced the parents were responsible to follow up and or would follow up. But again, there just is no system in place to deal with dangerous schizophrenics or people with other mental illnesses. I'm glad the school recognized his behavior was dangerous and got him out of the school. But it seems there was no place to pass the responsibility to after that.

 

[quadraginta]

Like another person earlier in this thread, you missed the responce in the last para - only difference was that person also did not quote it. It's the sentence right after the one referring to quick and unexpected for one group. This thing is in the second group - he has too much data in him for any mercy. Any. My standard, not yours.

I didn't miss anything. That's why I quoted it. Your phrase, "he has too much data in him" may sound meaningful to you, especially since you repeat it, but it doesn't present much content that I can discern. Perhaps you would elaborate.

The question I asked was why you believed that torture was an appropriate response for someone who was not responsible for their own actions as a result of mental illness. Whether or not you believe execution is appropriate is irrelevant. I disagree with you, but it is another subject entirely.

Why do you think that dragging him through the desert is going to produce any results that would be more beneficial for anyone?

A desire to inflict purely gratuitous pain is indicative of an entirely different sort of mental issue. This has nothing to do with "mercy".

 

[Orphia Nay]

Another thread of his at ATS:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread592730/pg1

I don't believe it's possible to send the mars rover to mars.
I don't believe it's possible to stabilize communication from mars to earth.

Mental illness can lead to conspiracy thinking, but I'm not sure it's proven that conspiracy thinking leads to mental illness.

 

[LTC8K6]

Minor technical, though I agree they are crosshairs - and neat distance markers also : he was clearly noting that the Justice Department was looking into his opponent, not suggesting that the average Democrat should make him a target. That is a touch, a tad, just a little bit different from marking him as a target for Dems to take out. Can you possibly locate one (just for me ) that is much more like the kind used by Palin or Griffins' opponent (the M-16 picture shoot thing).


In all fairness, I am asking that because I do not think you will be able to find such from any major political Democrat (State Rep. or higher - up to President). Not even when Shrub was first running. Or running later.

No, because I did not, as far as I know, suggest any equivalency, and I was asked for possible examples, and then the goalpost was moved.

The idea that "targeting" an opponent means the opponent should be murdered is ridiculous, and is only part of using this incident for political gain.

It disgusts me.

As I said, I've had it.

Going to try the ignore feature for this thread.