Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

Ausmerican said:
applecorped, I think you misunderstand what I mean. I am not suggesting Palin or her stupid map had a damn thing to do with this shooting. I am saying that it sure looks like Palin or her people were afraid it may have had something to do with it.
As far as the moronic Bush comment goes, are you mistaking me for another poster?
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O.K. That I agree with. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Yeah, I thought it was a bit over the top myself. Although, maybe he was trying to catch the attention of the Academy.
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That said, I hope they nail the perp to whatever metaphorical cross he thought he was raising to his cause, and that the survivors recover quickly.
 
Ausmerican said:
applecorped, I think you misunderstand what I mean. I am not suggesting Palin or her stupid map had a damn thing to do with this shooting. I am saying that it sure looks like Palin or her people were afraid it may have had something to do with it.
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They're afraid of the political fallout, plain and simple.
 
Rolfe said:
I see this thread has grown quickly.

Can anyone tell me if there is a list of dead/injured anywhere? I have a cousin living in Tucson. I don't want to call her mother this time of night just to worry her.

Rolfe.
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Sorry Rolfe, this thread seems to be long on speculation, but decidedly vacuous of actual factual information.
 
DavidJames said:
My point is (call me a crazy idealist) but on a skeptics forum, I would hope people would wait for some substance before wildly speculating.

I think your points are excellent topics for debate. I just think this is neither the correct thread nor the right time (to soon) to include this event in the body of evidence. Sorry counselor if I've misused the term evidence in this context ;)
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It's not out of character here for people to argue probabilities. If the shooter is just a nut with no real political affiliation we will have one outcome where this sad day will behind America before too long. On the other hand, if he's quoting Glenn Beck or someone like him right now to the police we could have a much different outcome. Or there might be yet others that could shoot off on an unusual tangent to what we might expect. And in this political climate it could turn into the start of a big thing with the right catalysts.
 
The perp has been identified as one "Jared Lee Loughner".

He seems to like posting hate-filled, rambling, and incoherent videos. Here's a quote from one:

We need a drum roll for those front runners in the election; those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution ... Those illegal military personal are able to sign into a country that they can't find with an impossible date! How did you trust your child with them fraud teachers and front runners, listener? Did you now know that the teachers, pigs, and front runners are treasonous!
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... et cetera, ad nauseum ...
 
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TraneWreck said:
Not for everyone, sadly.
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Well, no, perhaps not.

I don't think anyone ever suggested it was criminal, just in poor taste.
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You can't be arrested for poor taste.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/06/sharron_angle_floated_possibil.html

I wonder if this sort of thing is what she meant. Do you have another interpretation?
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Since she explicitly mentioned revolution, I suspect that she meant revolution.

Sure. And sometimes murders emerge from movements, like the person who assassinated Dr. Tiller or, say, the 19 hijackers that perpetrated 9-11.

Just murderers being murderers or do we need to look deeper?
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At all right-leaning people?

Yes. I condemn glib references to politically motivated violence. You support them?
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What glib references to politically motivated violence?

I've never suggested Palin should be arrested. I do think, however, that we need to scrutinize the hyperbole coming out of the right over these last few years.
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We? Scrutinize? Hyperbole? The right?

The groundwork for Dr. Tiller's murder was laid by years of propaganda in the fundamentalist community about abortion doctors being agents for Satan and such. It's not idle chat.
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It's protected speech. It is the most fundamental freedom there is.

What, exactly, do you want to do about that?

If you want to argue with them, to educate people, I'm right there beside you.

But if you are saying that they don't have the right to say what they did - then I'm going to be right there beside them.

The same is true of the wide-eyed hysteria of Angle, Beck, and other figures on the right.
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And if so, so what?
 
TraneWreck said:
It certainly does.

Right now, however, the highest profile advocates of violence are on the right. That doesn't mean it's always been that way or will continue to be that way, and I will gladly stand with you to ridicule any figure on "my side" engaging in such horrible behavior.
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MSNBC's Liberal commentator Ed Schultz:

"We Ought To Rip Out Dick Cheney's Heart!"

seems kinda violent to me...
 
MattusMaximus said:
They're afraid of the political fallout, plain and simple.
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I agree Mattus but in Palins usual manner she, IMHO, has made exactly the wrong move. If it had been taken down when it was first put up and there was an outcry about it she would be ahead. Especially if there was a message attached about how she understood how some people had misconstrued the metaphor she was using and she certainly didn't want to be seen as encouraging extremists.

But when a bunch of people tell you that it looks like you are doing just that and something like this could happen, then the victim of this current event notes that you have placed a bullseye on them in the media, then gets killed, and then you take it down?

It doesn't matter if the nut had ever even seen the map by that stage. Politics is like showbusiness, apperance trumps fact by and large for the majority. Because the majority dont dig past the appearance.
 
deepatrax said:
I think you missed my point...

I don't think this lunatic's motives were Left/Right political...this guy was clearly out of touch with reality and I'd be surprised if he knew of any of the political positions of Rep. Giffords, who btw supported the Second Amendment and strong immigration enforcement.
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I agree with the bolded portion. The rest (regarding the shooter's motivations) is baseless speculation.

And to your point that we can't really know the shooter's motivations based on his target... again, it was a planned and publicized event for Gabrielle Giffords. Judge John Kroll was not scheduled or expected to be there. That Giffords was the target is further bolstered by the fact that she was shot in the head at pointblank range.
 
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