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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Sherlock Holmes said:
But wouldn't that blow away the idea of 40 hours of interrogation without food or interpreter, the starvation, lack of food and drink and the torture just short of water-boarding. If the interpreter didn't get there till 12:30, then the interrogation didn't start until 12:30, pretty hard to interrogate someone who doesn't know what you’re saying.
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Sorry Sherlock, you've got it wrong. Obviously, the interrogation didn't finish until 6:30 the evening after next! Luckly she'd had a good pizza to keep her going for two days, otherwise I'd suspect police brutality on a scale that a certain FBI agent couldn't even imagine!
 
LondonJohn said:
The debate was on the narrower issue of whether there had been an interpreter present "throughout" Knox's interrogation of the 5th/6th. Some claim that an interpreter was present throughout. The answer is that an interpreter was not present throughout. That is all.
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Sounds a bit "picky" to me. One would almost suspect that "debates" such as this set out to mislead the casual viewer into believing that her statements were extracted unfairly. Although I am sure that anyone believing in Knox's innocence would not need to stoop so low.

I realise that secret agent Kenneth Moore seems to rely upon his wife for information about the case and therefore can be forgiven for getting things a bit "a" over "t" but regular posters on this site seem to have a good grasp of the details. It's just that their interpretations do seem to be a bit loopy at times.
 
Dan O. said:
The first search term I would try would be "Patrick fired Amanda". With this I find 2 earlier posts in the current thread:

[Post 5358] (September, reply to tsig)
[Post 8374] (October, reply to Capealadin)​

You could start there and see if there is a continued discussion in subsequent posts.
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Thank you Dan, I'll try that shortly.

LondonJohn said:
The debate was on the narrower issue of whether there had been an interpreter present "throughout" Knox's interrogation of the 5th/6th. Some claim that an interpreter was present throughout. The answer is that an interpreter was not present throughout. That is all.
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Clearly not much could be said between a girl who could barely speak even the simplest Italian at that point and a bunch of police who couldn't speak much if any english. Until the interpretor arrived they probably didn't do much in the way of interrogation.
 
shuttlt said:
Should we take the same view of claims that the knife, or the bra-clasp or whatever are about to be thrown out?
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You think the knife & bra-clasp are about to be thrown out?

Little by little the prosecution's evidence against Amanda and Raffaele is being disallowed, eh?

The way this case is going, all the evidence will be disallowed and Amanda and Raffaele will still be in jail with a valid alibi and witnesses that say Guede said they didn't do the murder!
 
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colonelhall said:
Sounds a bit "picky" to me. One would almost suspect that "debates" such as this set out to mislead the casual viewer into believing that her statements were extracted unfairly. Although I am sure that anyone believing in Knox's innocence would not need to stoop so low.

I realise that secret agent Kenneth Moore seems to rely upon his wife for information about the case and therefore can be forgiven for getting things a bit "a" over "t" but regular posters on this site seem to have a good grasp of the details. It's just that their interpretations do seem to be a bit loopy at times.
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I dunno - you'd have to ask loverofzion. It was (s)he who repeatedly insisted that there had been an interpreter present "throughout" Knox's interviews.
 
Danceme said:
Clearly not much could be said between a girl who could barely speak even the simplest Italian at that point and a bunch of police who couldn't speak much if any english. Until the interpretor arrived they probably didn't do much in the way of interrogation.
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One of the cops present there also spoke some English if I remember the details correctly.
 
Danceme said:
Thank you Dan, I'll try that shortly.



Clearly not much could be said between a girl who could barely speak even the simplest Italian at that point and a bunch of police who couldn't speak much if any english. Until the interpretor arrived they probably didn't do much in the way of interrogation.
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Knox could speak basic Italian at that point. I believe it's true to say that she was far from fully fluent, or even conversationally fluent, but you're painting it like she was a rank beginner. She studied German and Italian at UW, and had been one of the few top students to make the "Dean's List" at the university.

Besides, I'm sure that even using rudimentary Italian and some supplementary "sign language", the police could have let Knox know exactly which direction they were moving in, long before the interpreter showed up...
 
LondonJohn said:
Knox could speak basic Italian at that point. I believe it's true to say that she was far from fully fluent, or even conversationally fluent, but you're painting it like she was a rank beginner. She studied German and Italian at UW, and had been one of the few top students to make the "Dean's List" at the university.

Besides, I'm sure that even using rudimentary Italian and some supplementary "sign language", the police could have let Knox know exactly which direction they were moving in, long before the interpreter showed up...
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I think that's grasping. I agree a certain amount of simple questioning could have been attempted but it"s also just as likely Amanda kept saying "I don't understand" many times until the interpreter arrived.
 
LondonJohn said:
And probably why I think that the Perugia police and prosecutors are so poor, as well...... ;)
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I'm moved by your compassion for the plight of hardworking people everywhere.


I also quite like the attempts at speculative fiction when it comes to the motives of the police.
 
Danceme said:
I think that's grasping. I agree a certain amount of simple questioning could have been attempted but it"s also just as likely Amanda kept saying "I don't understand" many times until the interpreter arrived.
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True. I wonder what the interview transcripts show. Or, better still, the actual audio/video recording of the interview. Oh, wait........
 
Halides, I looked up some of the old conversations from July on the issue of whether Amanda was fired or quit and came across this post #3422 from you,

Fuji,

Amanda’s cousin Dorothy recalled that Amanda was scared and confused, terrified that a murderer was on the loose (Murder in Italy, p. 131). She told her friend DJ that she was afraid to stay alone or to walk from Corso Garibaldi to her class (p.132). Her letter to her mother says that she needs to talk to her boss because she cannot work at night any longer (p. 133). She and Patrick met on the street on the afternoon of 5 November where she told him she would have to quit (p. 135).

There is a news report to the effect that Mr. Lumumba fired her, but I do not think it has much credibility.

Is this the only citation relating Amanda's desire to quit? Did Amanda's family provide Candace Dempsey with personal letters to use in her book or were these letters available elsewhere?
 
Moss said:
I'm moved by your compassion for the plight of hardworking people everywhere.


I also quite like the attempts at speculative fiction when it comes to the motives of the police.
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Are they better than Mignini's attempts at speculative fiction when he imagines Knox saying to Meredith: "You are always behaving like a little saint. Now we will show you. Now we will make you have sex"? I hope so.
 
LondonJohn said:
Are they better than Mignini's attempts at speculative fiction when he imagines Knox saying to Meredith: "You are always behaving like a little saint. Now we will show you. Now we will make you have sex"? I hope so.
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That's like comparing GOR with a Patricia Cornwell novel. I'm not particularly impressed by either.
 
Danceme said:
Halides, I looked up some of the old conversations from July on the issue of whether Amanda was fired or quit and came across this post #3422 from you,

Fuji,

Amanda’s cousin Dorothy recalled that Amanda was scared and confused, terrified that a murderer was on the loose (Murder in Italy, p. 131). She told her friend DJ that she was afraid to stay alone or to walk from Corso Garibaldi to her class (p.132). Her letter to her mother says that she needs to talk to her boss because she cannot work at night any longer (p. 133). She and Patrick met on the street on the afternoon of 5 November where she told him she would have to quit (p. 135).

There is a news report to the effect that Mr. Lumumba fired her, but I do not think it has much credibility.

Is this the only citation relating Amanda's desire to quit? Did Amanda's family provide Candace Dempsey with personal letters to use in her book or were these letters available elsewhere?
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Surely the most important point in regard to Knox's employment status at Le Chic is that she was due to work on the night of 1st November 2007. I don't think it's ever been disputed by Lumumba that the text message exchange at 8.15-8.45 on that evening was essentially a friendly one, in which Lumumba told Knox not to bother coming into work that night because it was incredibly quiet (being both the night after Halloween, and a Church/public holiday).

Now, it could of course be the case that Lumumba was firing or demoting Knox via that text message, but that he was doing it obliquely, euphemistically or gently. But I think it's far more likely that the message was meant to be interpreted exactly at face value: the bar WAS incredibly quiet that night, and it therefore made perfect sense for Lumumba to ask casual labour not to come in and get paid for doing nothing.

So it would appear that Knox had not been sacked or demoted before 2nd November. And anything that happened after that needs to be viewed in the context of the aftermath of Meredith's murder, when many things had been turned on their heads. Personally, I think that Lumumba's claims that he either had sacked Knox or was about to sack her are heavily coloured by his massively-altered perception of Knox post her "confession/accusation".
 
Just because Amanda was doing to work does not mean she had been demoated as Patrick testified.
 
Sorry typo. Just because Amanda was doing to work does not mean she had not been demoted as Patrick testified.
 
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