• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Fine said:
Charlie,

Would you be willing to share with us another document? We know from her court testimony that Amanda wrote another memorandum, which was written on November 7 (2007)---one day after her arrest--- when in Capanne Prison. Amanda in court acknowledges writing it, her attorney, Ghirga, confirms that he has a copy of it, and Patrick's attorney, Pacelli, asks Amanda about statements she made in this memorandum.

///
Click to expand...

I don't think I have anything like that.
 
Fine said:
Charlie,

Would you be willing to share with us another document? We know from her court testimony that Amanda wrote another memorandum, which was written on November 7 (2007)---one day after her arrest--- when in Capanne Prison. Amanda in court acknowledges writing it, her attorney, Ghirga, confirms that he has a copy of it, and Patrick's attorney, Pacelli, asks Amanda about statements she made in this memorandum.

///
Click to expand...

Fine, you should ask on PMF. Dear Leader has it and he blustered about releasing it not long ago.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
I'm guessing Hellmann will invite a thorough and exhaustive review of the bra fastener and the knife that will take months and consume the attention of the public and the media. Then on a hot Friday afternoon in July, he will declare that the knife is out, the bra fastener is unresolved, but the verdict stands because of all the other evidence, which they never got around to examining. Then the Supreme Court will take up the subject in a leisurely way, eventually concluding that the evidence is compelling, but not quite good enough to sustain the conviction. Amanda and Raffaele will go free after spending at least five years in prison.
Click to expand...

The judge has already extended the time that they can be held in custody by the three months it took to produce the motivations of the trial of first instance,he could have just let the period of custody run out and both would have been released,he has also made an order that their custody can be extended by the length of the review of the bra clasp and the knife dna.He cannot really predict what the results of the review will be.If they both are thrown out he will have an excellent opertunity to release both defendents,without digging any deeper into how and why these two defendents were framed
 
shuttlt said:
This isn't a confusion with the memorandum we already know about? Is there really another one?
Click to expand...

_______________________

There is another one. The one we are familiar with was written November 6, while Amanda was still at the police station. The other one was written a day later, when at Capanne Prison. See Amanda's trial testimony, where Massei also confirms that it exists.
///
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
I'll get all happy and gooey-eyed the day Amanda and Raffaele walk out of prison. Until then, I'm gonna be a flaming *******. It's not skepticism, it's my religion. Plus it's what I do best.
Click to expand...


How many can give an amen to that sentiment?
 
Fine said:
Charlie,

Would you be willing to share with us another document? We know from her court testimony that Amanda wrote another memorandum, which was written on November 7 (2007)---one day after her arrest--- when in Capanne Prison. Amanda in court acknowledges writing it, her attorney, Ghirga, confirms that he has a copy of it, and Patrick's attorney, Pacelli, asks Amanda about statements she made in this memorandum.

///
Click to expand...

We know the prosecution and court also has this document and it is a separate one from the hand written note of the 6th. The one quote we have from her testimony is in this Q&A:

CP: On the 7th you wrote "I didn't lie when I said the murderer might be Patrick." Why did you write that in your memorandum of the 7th?

AK: Honestly, I thought, like the police had told me -- the police had told me they had already found the guilty person. And they had suggested Patrick so much that I thought maybe it really was him. But apart from that, in that memorandum that I wrote in prison, the important thing for me was to tell what I knew, and what I knew was where I was on that evening.
Click to expand...

Since it is also asked why she does not mention Patrick, I assume that this is the only quote dealing with that. She also indicates she wanted to detail what she remembered about where she was and what she was doing and not more on Patrick.

It is implied that there is not much more that could be considered incriminating in the 7 November Memorandum as she is not questioned further on anything specific to that document (IIRC). Amanda's appeal briefly addresses this as it also appears this memorandum was written in the presence of police but not a lawyer.

1. The defense intends to revive the broken and memorial Amanda Knox drawn on the morning of November 6, 2007 and that of November 7 2007; therefore challenging the order of February 6, 2009 which dismissed the request from the process to expel the writings of 6 and 7 November 2007, under Article. 237 and 188 cpp More precisely, we intend to repeat more thoughtful assessment, Using the two writings of Knox drawn continuously to the facts of the morning November 6, 2007.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I wanted to add that the one quote we have from this seems to me to be more helpful than harmful to Amanda's case. I would love to see this document as well.
 
shuttlt said:
Odd that such a document would exist and Charlie wouldn't have it. Could be that it's dull and irrelevant, but I'm still surprised.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that you're surprised. I'd be even more surprised if Charlie even having it, acknowledged that.

Even if there is nothing in that paper that could be twisted into something incriminating - and it sure looks like it, otherwise we would have that document long ago - still the first thing PMF nutjobs would do would be to send it to that loony statement analysis guy, who would promptly explain how one innocuous word really mean murder, and the other deceit.

So I don't see why on earth should Charlie make it easier for them to smear Amanda.
 
katy_did said:
Have to say, though, that I still disagree with the use of the word 'persuade', there. He only says that she 'caused' him (or 'influenced', etc) to talk rubbish, he never says explicitly that she told him to lie, which is what 'persuade' makes it sound like. And in his actual police statement it's obvious that he isn't saying she told him to lie, but that he believed what she was telling him ('she convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think of the inconsistencies').

(I know this has been discussed a bit before, though :D)
Click to expand...
__________________________

Well, katy_did, Raffaele does write, explicitly, that--- at one time, while interrogated by the cops---his version was that Amanda had told him to lie. In retracting his accusation against Amanda he writes in his Diary:

"The investigators asked me if she had told me to
say anything but (unfortunately, I now say) itʹs not like that: all I have said, I have said
[fatto] of my own free will."



///:duck:
 
Last edited:
Fine said:
__________________________

Well, katy_did, Raffaele does write, explicitly, that--- at one time, while interrogated by the cops---his version was that Amanda had told him to lie. In retracting his accusation against Amanda he writes in his Diary:

"The investigators asked me if she had told me to
say anything but (unfortunately, I now say) itʹs not like that: all I have said, I have said
[fatto] of my own free will."



///:duck:
Click to expand...

I don't see where he admits that Amanda told him to lie. It appears he is saying he said that and not her (added bolding on "it's not like that").

In Amanda's note of 6 November she says this:

My boyfriend has claimed that I have said things that I know are not true. I KNOW I told him I didn't have to work that night. I remember that moment very clearly. I also NEVER asked him to lie for me. This is absolutely a lie. What I don't understand is why Raffaele, who has always been so caring and gentle with me, would lie about this. What does he have to hide? I don't think he killed Meredith, but I do think he is scared, like me. He walked into a situation that he has never had to be in, and perhaps he is trying to find a way out by disassociating himself with me.
Click to expand...

I believe this is related to the police tactics used against both Amanda and Raffaele, making both of them doubt the other and encouraging them to drop each other's alibi.
 
RoseMontague said:
I wanted to add that the one quote we have from this seems to me to be more helpful than harmful to Amanda's case. I would love to see this document as well.
Click to expand...

The November 7 memorial is mentioned in the motivations on page 19, along with the November 6 memorial. It appears it was part of the documentation of the calunnia trial concerning Patrick. As far as I can search there is no other direct mention of the memorial in the motivations.

At the hearing of February 6, 2009 the Court rejected the request by Knox’s defence to expunge from the production of documents of the plaintiff Lumumba the hand- written memorial in the English language, written by Amanda Knox on November 6, 2007 at the Offices of the Flying Squad of Police Headquarters, handed over to an official of the judicial police before the person under investigation was transferred to prison on the execution of the decree of arrest, and also the other memorial written in prison on November 7, 2007.
Click to expand...
 
Fine said:
__________________________

Well, katy_did, Raffaele does write, explicitly, that--- at one time, while interrogated by the cops---his version was that Amanda had told him to lie. In retracting his accusation against Amanda he writes in his Diary:

"The investigators asked me if she had told me to
say anything but (unfortunately, I now say) itʹs not like that: all I have said, I have said
[fatto] of my own free will."



///:duck:
Click to expand...

:confused:

Can you point out where he does write it? The quote you gave surely doesn't say that.
 
christianahannah said:
The November 7 memorial is mentioned in the motivations on page 19, along with the November 6 memorial. It appears it was part of the documentation of the calunnia trial concerning Patrick. As far as I can search there is no other direct mention of the memorial in the motivations.
Click to expand...

This might be a reference to the 7 page "prison diary".
 
christianahannah said:
The November 7 memorial is mentioned in the motivations on page 19, along with the November 6 memorial. It appears it was part of the documentation of the calunnia trial concerning Patrick. As far as I can search there is no other direct mention of the memorial in the motivations.
Click to expand...

Yes, the relevant quote to the calumnia charge is the one mentioned above. Personally, I see it as not only showing doubt that Patrick may have done this but also an indication that there is no way she could know with certainty. And since she would have to deliberately lie to be guilty of calumnia this to me is an indication that she may be innocent on that charge as well. It is clear that the police ignored any indications of doubt, vagueness, and inconsistencies in her false accusation.
 
Kestrel said:
This might be a reference to the 7 page "prison diary".
Click to expand...

That's what I had thought, but the November 7 memorial was given to the police on the same day. Was the diary of Amanda composed over several days and confiscated or written in one day?

I remember reading somewhere that Amanda had been visited by a nun and after the nun had left Amanda memories of what had actually occurred the night of Meredith's murder came back to Amanda and she wrote those facts down on paper.
 
christianahannah said:
That's what I had thought, but the November 7 memorial was given to the police on the same day. Was the diary of Amanda composed over several days and confiscated or written in one day?

I remember reading somewhere that Amanda had been visited by a nun and after the nun had left Amanda memories of what had actually occurred the night of Meredith's murder came back to Amanda and she wrote those facts down on paper.
Click to expand...

Amanda's diary was several hundred pages, IIRC.
 
billyryan said:
The judge has already extended the time that they can be held in custody by the three months it took to produce the motivations of the trial of first instance,he could have just let the period of custody run out and both would have been released,he has also made an order that their custody can be extended by the length of the review of the bra clasp and the knife dna.He cannot really predict what the results of the review will be.If they both are thrown out he will have an excellent opertunity to release both defendents,without digging any deeper into how and why these two defendents were framed
Click to expand...

He's not looking for an opportunity to release them. Don't you think he knows they are completely innocent? People on the Internet may read Massei's crap and think it is very impressive and convincing, but this guy isn't that dumb. He looking for some way to avoid an outcome that will embarrass the system.

If you think I'm wrong, ask the Birmingham Six, or the West Memphis Three, or the Norfolk Four, or Barry Beach, or Hernandez and Cruz, or any of a zillion other people who have gotten caught up in one of these nightmare cases. It takes a lot of work to get them out, if you get them out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom